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Technical Starter Solenoids

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by blowby, Oct 6, 2020.

  1. blowby
    Joined: Dec 27, 2012
    Posts: 6,869

    blowby
    Member
    from Nicasio Ca

    Looks like it's time to clean the contacts and flip the washer on my SBC. Wouldn't be so bad except for getting by the headers. Stock old school starter. Have there been advances in starter solenoid tech or same old way? How do you do a remote solenoid on a Chevy? Is that a good thing?
     
  2. Bandit Billy
    Joined: Sep 16, 2014
    Posts: 6,869

    Bandit Billy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    The starter doesn't know if the solenoid is remote or attached, they aren't that smart.
     
    firstinsteele likes this.
  3. Boneyard51
    Joined: Dec 10, 2017
    Posts: 4,347

    Boneyard51
    Member

    Yep, put a Ford relay on it! It will start better and run better!






    Bones
     
    wicarnut and Truckdoctor Andy like this.
  4. blowby
    Joined: Dec 27, 2012
    Posts: 6,869

    blowby
    Member
    from Nicasio Ca

    Don't you still need something to engage the gear?
     
    Bandit Billy likes this.

  5. Bandit Billy
    Joined: Sep 16, 2014
    Posts: 6,869

    Bandit Billy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I run my solenoids in the trunk on the 34 and my 442 as both have batteries mounted in the rear as well. Both have gear reduction starters with solenoids on them. I jump the S terminal to the Batt lug on the starter and run the solenoid wire (usually a #1 or #2 depending on the run length) from the trunk to the Batt lug on the starter. When the solenoid lights the wire, the starter engages.
     
  6. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 46,865

    squirrel
    Member

    Is it having a problem? If so, what are the symptoms?

    I haven't had to screw with the solenoid for a long long time on any of mine. But I did have one that needed a relay to power the purple (S) wire, because the voltage drop in the start circuit was too much to make the solenoid fire some times. I just used a little Bosch relay, to give the purple wire a boost. No problem after that.
     
    VANDENPLAS likes this.
  7. Boneyard51
    Joined: Dec 10, 2017
    Posts: 4,347

    Boneyard51
    Member

    If you are having to replace the solenoid plate often , you have a voltage problem. Low voltage is extremely hard on relays.
    But answer a previous question, yes you will still need to energize the solenoid to engage the starter drive, but you will move the relay up to the fender, like a Ford.

    Chevy starters, have the solenoid and relay made together. Ford puts the relay on the fender to keep it cool and has the solenoid on the starter.





    Bones
     
  8. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 4,245

    Budget36
    Member


    So what pushes the drive out? I’m not seeing this clearly. If you take the solenoid off the starter...if you leave it on it’s still subject to heat soak
     
  9. Boneyard51
    Joined: Dec 10, 2017
    Posts: 4,347

    Boneyard51
    Member

    You run a big wire from the Ford relay to the starter post. Then run a small wire from there to the exciter post on the solenoid. Bypassing the Chevy relay.

    Then run your wire from your starter button to the S terminal on the Ford relay.




    Bones
     
    Bandit Billy likes this.
  10. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 4,245

    Budget36
    Member

    I’m going to bench test this. Get my head around it;)


    Although I’ve taken to changing out with the mini starters the last several years, just easier to install as you get older
     
  11. Ford didn't start using a starter-mounted solenoid until what, late 70s or 80s? When the permanent magnet versions came in... They used the Bendix drive until the early '60s then switched to the 'field pole' design. This operated by having a iron core partially inserted between the field coils. The current inrush would pull the core down engaging the starter gear and the load would keep it there. Once the motor started, the load dropped, current went down, and the core popped up disengaging the drive.
     
  12. blowby
    Joined: Dec 27, 2012
    Posts: 6,869

    blowby
    Member
    from Nicasio Ca

    Click. Click. Click....Vroom. Been getting progressively worse. When it does spin, it spins with gusto, no problem with battery. Not a recurring problem with this vehicle. Just have had to do them in the past, seen the burnt contacts and washers. Thought maybe I'd make improvements to avoid dealing with this pesky R&R for a long time. I did try a jumper wire from bat to S terminal, same issue.
     
  13. 2OLD2FAST
    Joined: Feb 3, 2010
    Posts: 2,728

    2OLD2FAST
    Member
    from illinois

    This discussion has always intriguer me ,if the reason for the starter not actuating is a heat" stuck" solenoid plunger , how does throwing more juice at it make it ( the plunger) move ? Like blow-by says hot wire didn't help ....
     
  14. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 46,865

    squirrel
    Member

    If the starter clicks and doesn't try to turn, then I think you have diagnosed it correctly. If there's nothing from the starter, then it could be the voltage drop that I discussed fixing with a relay.

    Might see if you can find an NOS solenoid...???
     
  15. Never2old
    Joined: Oct 14, 2010
    Posts: 648

    Never2old
    Member
    from so cal

    That’s funny, every Chevy starter I’ve ever seen needs the solenoid to engage the gear.


    Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
     
  16. 2OLD2FAST
    Joined: Feb 3, 2010
    Posts: 2,728

    2OLD2FAST
    Member
    from illinois

    Exactly..
     
  17. blowby
    Joined: Dec 27, 2012
    Posts: 6,869

    blowby
    Member
    from Nicasio Ca

    So I pulled the starter apart. Cleaned the solenoid contacts. Now I see the rear bushing is shot, .040" of slop. Odd size, 5/8x9/16, hardware store doesn't have it. Wonder if I should bother, new starters aren't too expensive and I hate to throw away something I can repair.

    start.jpg starter.jpg
     
  18. larry k
    Joined: Feb 23, 2009
    Posts: 319

    larry k
    Member

    You can buy front and rear bushings and brushes from any Napa store, and rebuild it !!!
     
    blowby likes this.

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