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Start July with a BANGer

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by ebtm3, Jul 1, 2011.

  1. ebtm3
    Joined: May 23, 2007
    Posts: 837

    ebtm3
    Member

    <table id="post6609118" class="tborder" align="center" border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr valign="top"><td class="alt1" id="td_post_6609118" style="border-right: 1px solid #e5e5e5"> Here is the banger link list .


    For the HAMB banger newbies, here are some links to a lot of banger info:

    Flat Ernie maintains the monthly link list. Every month is listed:

    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...d.php?t=161498



    Banger basics. another info link list:

    http://www.fordgarage.com/

    http://www.billsbangers.com

    http://www.plucks329s.org/index.htm

    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...d.php?t=251717

    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=42480

    Post #105 of link below shows flywheel lightening dimensions
    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...=470853&page=6


    Engine tuning with a Vacuum gauge
    http://www.centuryperformance.com/tu...e-spg-148.html

    Adjusting dual Strombergs:
    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...61#post6638461

    Helpful Model A tools and tips:

    http://www.maurer-markus.ch/ford_a/tipps.index.en.html

    Elrod's stuck head tech:

    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...d.php?t=218487

    Model A generator to alternator conversion:

    http://ejwhitneyco.com/automotive.html

    Gear ratio / speed and RPM calculator:

    http://www.accuautoparts.com/calculatorfin.jsp


    Model A master cylinder mounting bracket ideas:

    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...73#post4953173

    Go here to read the 1931 edition of Harry Ricardo's book "The High Speed Internal Combustion Engine"

    http://www.scribd.com/full/40610101?...icdancrnxypd05


    Chevy Banger Stuff

    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...d.php?t=463465

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/22469332/T...e-Ricardo-1931

    Post 198 starts a great discussion of the shape of a flat head combustion chamber

    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...470853&page=10

    Maybe these links should be posted early in each months meeting.

    If anyone knows of more, please post them.
    __________________
    " I've tried nothing ...and I'm all out of ideas."

    T-5 5 speed in a Torque Tube:
    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...d.php?t=256226


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  2. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 9,830

    RichFox
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Something to think about over the long weekend
     

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  3. Crazydaddyo
    Joined: Apr 6, 2008
    Posts: 3,135

    Crazydaddyo
    Member

    From the looks of the crank, It looks like it is set up for a T engine.


    .
     
  4. fiveohnick2932
    Joined: Mar 29, 2006
    Posts: 889

    fiveohnick2932
    Member
    from Napa, Ca.

    Excuse me but where did you get that 2 up 2 down crank??? I want one, I want one :D. Winfield was such a bad ass.
     
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  5. ebtm3
    Joined: May 23, 2007
    Posts: 837

    ebtm3
    Member

    Ye Gods!
    That thing looks like it ought to have tons of fore and aft vertical vibration--or side to side IF they can balance to 100% (not likely without mercury or Mallory metal--even then?)

    Herb
     
  6. fiveohnick2932
    Joined: Mar 29, 2006
    Posts: 889

    fiveohnick2932
    Member
    from Napa, Ca.

    I think I read that Ed said it had a vibration problem but ran like hell.
     
  7. ebtm3
    Joined: May 23, 2007
    Posts: 837

    ebtm3
    Member

    But Ed's was symmetrical, end to end, so he only had to contend with up and down vibration, primarily.

    As Rich said, we can talk about it all we want--the proof will be in the running--but I have to think that someone spent a lot of money on a sexy mailbox post.

    Herb
     
  8. Not technical but a picture taken in 1956 of my second Banger. Loved it so much I replaced it with a flathead V-8..... lol. I guess I read too many HOT ROD mags and I was only 17 :rolleyes:. I do have fond memories of that car, with both engines, I guess that's why I built the Ghost Rider Roadster with a "B" engine.
    Ron
     

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  9. ebtm3
    Joined: May 23, 2007
    Posts: 837

    ebtm3
    Member

    Had one just like it with the original 21 stud--aluminum heads, pan, 1 barrel aluminum manifold--all the early stuff that the '32 restorers look for, except the dipstick on the passenger's side. Near perfect body--Put an Olds into it with Caddy trans, X cross member--and never finished it. sold it for peanuts.

    Oh and BTW--took the stock V8 to the scrap yard--can you say dumb ass?

    Should have left it stock, or at best put a '49-'53 Merc flathead in it--but you probably remember what it was like to be a 20 year old know-it-all.


    Herb
     
  10. fiveohnick2932
    Joined: Mar 29, 2006
    Posts: 889

    fiveohnick2932
    Member
    from Napa, Ca.

    What do you mean by symmetrical (Im a little slow sometimes)?

    It would be fun to play around with getting one of those ballanced thats if it really has ballance problems (I dont really know). Playing around with adding or removing counterweights and offsetting them, would be a fun project (but I love working on that kind of stuff).
     
  11. BCCHOPIT
    Joined: Aug 10, 2008
    Posts: 2,592

    BCCHOPIT
    Member

    Sweet ride....
    In 1956 my dad was only 6 :)
     
  12. Sweet ride....
    In 1956 my dad was only 6 :)

    But in my mind I'm only 24 lol. It just goes to show you that if you are very lucky;), you can be having fun at any age. The good thing is, I realize that I am VERY lucky and I don't take any of it for granted.
    Ron
    p.s. the attached picture was taken in March of this year.
    "Here's looking at you, Kid" (in my best Bogart voice...lol)
     

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  13. ebtm3
    Joined: May 23, 2007
    Posts: 837

    ebtm3
    Member

    2932--

    If you look at the Winfield crank, the rod throws are all in the same plane
    , and the front half looks like the back half. One up, one down front half, same thing back half.

    With the shaft that Rich posted the front half has two up when the rear has two down. As far as I can see, that is going to result in massive amounts of end to end shake.

    Pistons decelerate and accelerate quicker at TDC than they do at BDC, due to rod angularity (the shorter the rod relative to the stroke, the worse that this is) so the pistons at one end of the engine will be going over center at a different speed than the ones at the other end. Probably the only way to get by with this arrangement would be with a counter rotating balance shaft, that modern four's have--and they have four intake ports, so weird crank configurations aren't needed.


    Herb
     
  14. ebtm3
    Joined: May 23, 2007
    Posts: 837

    ebtm3
    Member

    Hapydz-

    If that's you in the fine roadster, we sort of look like brothers

    [​IMG]


    Herb

    Not however, meant to in any way be an insult-----
     
  15. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 9,830

    RichFox
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Something I'm not getting here. A stock crank has #1 up and #2 down, #3 down and #4 up. Fires 1-3-4-2 except Ford. Winfield your saying has 1 up #2 down, #3 up and #4 down. Which has to fire 1-4-3-2 or 1-2-3-4. How would that help? I have not seen a banger that didn't have a flat crank.
     
  16. junk yard kid
    Joined: Nov 11, 2007
    Posts: 2,714

    junk yard kid
    Member

    I want both pistons to fire at the same time.
     
  17. Herb; I don't think my Dad was ever down your way..LOL but gees, you are right :D we do .....That's funny Bro !
    Ron
     
  18. ebtm3
    Joined: May 23, 2007
    Posts: 837

    ebtm3
    Member



    Rich, you are 100% correct. Some how I got it in my head that his crank was up-down-up-down. Winfield's crank had to be the same configuration as the one that you pictured, to alternate ports. I still contend that a crank with that configuration is going to shake more than a little though. Sorry for causing confusion.

    Herb
     
  19. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 9,830

    RichFox
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I think you are right about the ballance for and aft with an engine using this crank. But smoothness is not the point. Speed and would it last for 5 or 6 trips down the short course. Hope we get some answers.
     
  20. 4-port Riley
    Joined: Oct 20, 2005
    Posts: 303

    4-port Riley
    Member

    The 2 up, 2 down crank spreads the port usage out evenly, making it close to a 4-port. Ed said it did shake but smoothed out some at higher speeds. I guess "higher speeds" means when he was passing a 2-cammer???
     
  21. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 9,830

    RichFox
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    May have been a certain harmonic where the vibrations from the crank matched speed with the neurons from his optic nerves and he could see again. Which he perceived as "Smoothing out".
     
  22. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 9,830

    RichFox
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    No you don't. At least I don't think you do.
     
  23. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 26,293

    The37Kid
    Member

    Is this a modified Wills St Clair crank? They used them is some T powered race cars.
     
  24. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 26,293

    The37Kid
    Member

  25. Crazydaddyo
    Joined: Apr 6, 2008
    Posts: 3,135

    Crazydaddyo
    Member

    Here is the difference between the stock T crank, and the Winfield 2 up 2 down.

    [​IMG]
     
  26. kurtis
    Joined: Mar 13, 2009
    Posts: 1,990

    kurtis
    Member
    from Australia

    Wills St.Claire 4th from the left.
     

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  27. I ask you...Where else can you find this kind of information ? The HAMB rules!
    Happy 4th, my neighbours to the south !
    Ron
     
  28. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 9,830

    RichFox
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    All I can say to this is that I met the man in the late '60s, when he ground a cam for me and he didn't act anything like described in this. He was friendly, showed me some old Offy block Troy Rutterman blew at Indy, and he had sawed in half to get a better look at the water jackets. And spent a little time being nice to a kid who knew nothing. He was very hard of hearing though. Which I now know, makes conversion sometimes unrewarding.
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2011
  29. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 26,293

    The37Kid
    Member

    I have to agree with you Rich. Back in the 1970's Bill and Mike LaRosa sat down and taped a lot of conversations with Ed Winfield. :)
     
  30. noboD
    Joined: Jan 29, 2004
    Posts: 6,979

    noboD
    Member

    Guess that means the lumps were closer together?
     

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