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Stall converter & trans cooler question

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Jim P, Feb 16, 2013.

  1. Jim P
    Joined: Apr 27, 2005
    Posts: 239

    Jim P
    Member
    from Tyler, TX

    My coupe has a 350 with a 700 behind it. It has always battled running hot in the middle of summer. I have been through all possibilities. I am changing a few things up right now. One thing I had planned to do was swap out converters. I currently have a stock converter in the car. So it won't drag me through the lights when stopped or jerk hard when put in to gear it is idled down to around 900 rpms. When in gear it idles at 500 rpms. I don't think it idles fast enough to allow the fan to move enough air stop light to stop light.

    Here's my question, I am going to put a small stall such as corvette converter in the car to help keep me from being pulled through lights and allow me to idle the motor up thus allowing the fan to spin faster creating more air flow. I am running the cooler lines through the radiator currently. Will the small stall generate enough heat to need an external cooler or would I be ok to keep it through the radiator?

    Thanks
     
  2. big duece
    Joined: Jul 28, 2008
    Posts: 6,225

    big duece
    Member
    from kansas

    Wouldnt hurt to have an additional cooler, with a small fan too. Does the 700 have a deep pan?
     
  3. Jim P
    Joined: Apr 27, 2005
    Posts: 239

    Jim P
    Member
    from Tyler, TX

    It does have the deeper pan.

    The car has a/c condenser coils in front of the radiator. It would probably have to be one of those in line types if I needed to go with one. If it didn't need one that would be great when trying to come up with a spot for it. ;)
     
  4. SakowskiMotors
    Joined: Nov 18, 2006
    Posts: 1,242

    SakowskiMotors
    Member

    Can't hurt to have an external cooler.
     

  5. mgtstumpy
    Joined: Jul 20, 2006
    Posts: 8,838

    mgtstumpy
    Member

    This is what I was advised on.
    I'm running a small stall convertor with my 700R and a deeper truck style pan in my '46 project. Don't forget to run the matching deeper pickup as well.
     

  6. Not sure what you mean by a " small stall converter" . A Corvette converter would be the same size .
     
  7. A have an AC condencer that has the trans cooler built into it.
    Bottom 3" x 24 is trans cooler - top 12x24 is Ac condencer .
    Pretty slick piece. It was off of some foreign job out of the bone yard.

    I'd run an auxiliary cooler no matter what.
     
  8. tudorkeith
    Joined: May 10, 2009
    Posts: 454

    tudorkeith
    Member

    How are you controling the lock up on the stock converter? if it isn't locking up during cruising, wouldn't the slippage generate extra heat? Someone let me know if that is wrong please.
     
  9. philjafo
    Joined: Dec 22, 2012
    Posts: 42

    philjafo
    Member
    from right here

    If the whole issue is the idle is turned up to move more air through the radiator to prevent overheating at stoplights, and your putting in the higher stall converter so it won't pull so hard on the brakes which generates extra heat in the trans. Correct me if I'm wrong there.

    Sounds like your chasing your tail. bring the idle down to about 5 or 600 rpm in neutral, and put an electric fan on or improve your mechanical one with a fan shroud if you don't already have one. The engine will make less heat at the lower idle speed and the tans will produce less heat because your not using the brakes and torque converter the pull the engine down from 1000 rpms.
     
  10. Deuce Roadster
    Joined: Sep 8, 2002
    Posts: 9,519

    Deuce Roadster
    Member Emeritus

    In my opinion ..... you are trying to fix the issue ... at the wrong place. :)

    [​IMG]

    You need to change your water pump. I suggest a ZIP's water pump riser. It raises the fan centerline over 5 inches and you can run a large 6 or 7 blade mechanical fan.

    [​IMG]

    I have a ZIPs on both my 32 Fords without any overheating issues.
    The first photo is my roadster and the second photo is of my 3W coupe.

    You can go here for a thread on the ZIPs.

    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=357516&highlight=zip+water

    I have a 700R4 in the 3W ... A/C ... and 430 HP small block. Runs cool always. Right on the thermostat. I have a small transmission cooler in line before the radiator. I have a 2400/2800 stall in the coupe. The trans fluid comes out of the 700R4, goes into the small extra 1 quart filter, then the extra cooler and then on to the Walker radiator.

    [​IMG]
     
  11. langy
    Joined: Apr 27, 2006
    Posts: 5,735

    langy
    Member Emeritus

    I would junk the rad cooler and fit a decent proper cooler, The in radiator type are far from ideal.
     
  12. Don's Hot Rods
    Joined: Oct 7, 2005
    Posts: 8,319

    Don's Hot Rods
    Member
    from florida


    I agree with Steve. By running the trans lines into the radiator you are simply adding more heat to an already stressed cooling system. Put a good double pass external cooler on it and you will be good to go.

    Also, don't be afraid to put a converter in the car with some extra stall to it. If you go to something like a 2800-3000 stall it won't slip and it will make a world of difference in how the car acts at lights and how it launches. Some people feel that the extra stall relates to slippage and extra heat, but that really isn't a concern until you start getting into the reallly high stall drag strip converters.

    Don
     
  13. txturbo
    Joined: Oct 23, 2009
    Posts: 1,771

    txturbo
    Member

    Changing the stall of the converter won't do what you are wanting. The stall of a convertor only comes into play at the rpm of the stall....which is way above idle. You have other issues....like not enough air or water flow or too small of a radiator.
    Also...does it only get hot at idle while in gear, highway speeds, low speeds or all of the above?
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2013
  14. kuhn1941
    Joined: Feb 15, 2013
    Posts: 194

    kuhn1941
    Member

    Agree ,even here in michigan eliminate the radiator cooler . That was common on even daily drivers such as work trucks ,the trans will get its heat from the engine block and exhaust under the car .
     
  15. mohead1
    Joined: Jan 18, 2013
    Posts: 592

    mohead1
    Member

    Any performance trans (w a warmed over motor) should have the external cooler. I agree, stall from 2800-3000 w a mild cam will help quite a bit on the lugging at stops. Definately delete the in-radiator cooler, thats old technology....use a 12 x 15 or similar cooler on the GRILL side of the radiator, make sure to have a fan shroud, and have the fan spaced out to mate to the shroud properly. That set up that Duece Roadster has is sweet, nice job there.
     
  16. Besides all of the good advice given, here's another alternative. This advice is not just from me and some of my cars, but from one of if not thee biggest names in Racing Auto trannys in the world, especially Powerglides.

    Get yourself one of those extruded heat sink type aluminum coolers/exchangers. You will use this in conjunction with the current radiator cooler. The hot fluid comes out of the trans and into the heat sink cooler, then goes into the rad cooler and then back into the trans. Again I'm speaking from experience and direct advice from the big guns in the business. J W Performance builds, dynos, even makes their own trans mission cases that are pretty much unbreakable even at well over 2000 HP, they know their stuff.

    The other advice I want to give is to chose your converter wisely, or better yet let the pros do it for you. Pick a good manufacturer, give him all the pertinent info, and let them make a decision. Of course some of us here will be knowledgeable enough to deny or confirm your choice as well.

    The right converter will completely transform the performance of your rig, and conversely the wrong converter will turn it into a real slug. A basic rule of thumb, as converter stall speed goes up, so does trans fluid temperatures so additional cooler efficiency requirements goes up as well. TR
     
  17. This is what I mean, I get mine from Derale,
     

    Attached Files:

  18. saltflats
    Joined: Aug 14, 2007
    Posts: 10,836

    saltflats
    Member
    from Missouri

    How about changing the pullys on the crank and pump.
    You will get better tranny cooling if you use the radiator cooler and a external one the fluid too fluid tranfer of heat will change temp more than air too fluid.
     
  19. Jim P
    Joined: Apr 27, 2005
    Posts: 239

    Jim P
    Member
    from Tyler, TX

    Randy, I have a Zip pump with a stock firewall and the full toe kick. I didn't cut my firewall up though like yours. I don't have the room you have for a heavy pitched fan. I currently have a flex fan that I am going to change for something a little better. Thanks for the thought though.
     
  20. Jim P
    Joined: Apr 27, 2005
    Posts: 239

    Jim P
    Member
    from Tyler, TX

    Stall speed not physical size. Sorry I wasn't clear.
     
  21. Jim P
    Joined: Apr 27, 2005
    Posts: 239

    Jim P
    Member
    from Tyler, TX

    I have the vacuum operated lock up switch.
     
  22. Jim P
    Joined: Apr 27, 2005
    Posts: 239

    Jim P
    Member
    from Tyler, TX

    This type of cooler is what I was thinking if I needed to go with one. Does anyone have any experience with this type of cooler?
     
  23. Yes Jim, I speak from experience. They work for one, and you don't really need be concerned with placement. They do not need a direct air flow like a plate an fin cooler to work, they just dissipate the heat outward. They get hot and you know that they are working. I gave you the exact advice given to me by my transmission builder of many years. I use the exact set up on my builds up to around the 700 HP range, and yes street driven here in smouldering Florida. 700 HP and up I use the plate/fin with a electric fan/thermostat arrangement. Plumb it the exact way I told you and it will work and be correct. Trans to heat sink to rad cooler and back to trans. I never give advice I don't stand behind 100% my friend. Get the longest cooler that will fit comfortable, they come in single pass and double pass. This helps with the inlet/outlet fittings. Single pass has a fitting on each end, the double pass has a both fittings on the one end or side. TR
     
  24. The heat sink coolers also add to the total capacity of fluid which in and of itself is quite helpful, especially the longer ones. TR
     
  25. Jim P
    Joined: Apr 27, 2005
    Posts: 239

    Jim P
    Member
    from Tyler, TX

    Thanks for the help. I will go this route. Just wasn't sure if it was needed with a corvette converter.
     


  26. The 700 converters vary in stall from 1211 to 2025.

    The 2025's are coded DBD, DBE, and DBF. That code is on the tag next to the hub , unless it's been painted over by a rebuilder.. Still ,they usually keep track of what they are starting with.
    Most likely, you have about a 1600 stall rated converter. Going up only 400 rpm ,while retaining the lock up plate is not going to cause a large difference in oil temp.
    You needed a cooler before now..in my opinion.
     

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