Register now to get rid of these ads!

Technical stainless brake line flaring woes!!

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by 55Thunderboy, Jul 8, 2017.

  1. 55Thunderboy
    Joined: Mar 27, 2009
    Posts: 356

    55Thunderboy
    Member
    from NYC

    hey guys i seem to be always having issues double flaring 3/16 stainless line. I have a pretty darn good flaring tool from eastwood, see photo. I usually buy long lengths of stainless line from Jegs which comes with two fittings where as i cut, template and flare. I have nothing but problems every single time i do this. On the Jegs website I just read earlier t does mention not to cut and flare these preflared lines, not sure why but ive ben using these lines for 7 years and just saw the notation this morning. I don't bother with the 50ft coil to make lines because i dont have a tube straightener or the patience to wrestle the coil.
    \
    Would any of you guys know if the preflared lines might have a thicker wall than the coiled line since they are CNC machine flared? it seems when i flare the Jegs line i see microficial cracks at the flare seat and i think this is why i always get leaks and need to kill the torque on the fittings always.

    i am considering using other material from here on out but undecided. i would just like to get this to work right each time i do a job. I have two dozen lines in my garage i keep on hand always, hate to toss them but the headaches are getting on my nerves.
     

    Attached Files:

  2. tfeverfred
    Joined: Nov 11, 2006
    Posts: 15,796

    tfeverfred
    Member

    The prefabbed lines must be thicker, otherwise why would they suggest not cutting and flaring? Looks like going with the coiled bulk line is your only option. I'd call the tech line to get the real answer.
     
  3. oj
    Joined: Jul 27, 2008
    Posts: 6,247

    oj
    Member

    I've never been able to doubleflare stainless, if I want stainless I switch to 37deg -AN flare.
     
  4. Poh
    Joined: Apr 17, 2007
    Posts: 266

    Poh
    Member
    from Quincy,Ca.

    Convert to AN, slide flared ferrule on, single flare tubing, be done .


    Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
     
    deucemac and milwscruffy like this.
    Register now to get rid of these ads!

  5. dirty old man
    Joined: Feb 2, 2008
    Posts: 8,543

    dirty old man
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    The SS lines can be a real PITA to get to seal up. Some people use the AN fittings and the single 37* flares with the SS and get slightly better results. There's also a new cone shaped diamond hone out, available in both 37* and 45*, to smooth the inside of the flare, but I haven't talked to anyone or read anything online about how well that works and/or if it helps at all.
    On edit: Couple of you type faster than I and are recommending 37* AN on SS. What material is the fittings you are using? My roadster was purchased by a previous owner as a rolling chassis built by a well renowned hot rod shop with SS AN lines and aluminum fittings. They don't actually leak, but some just sorta "weep" or "seep". Wipe dry, and in time they're wet again.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2017
    Poh likes this.
  6. dreracecar
    Joined: Aug 27, 2009
    Posts: 3,005

    dreracecar
    Member
    from so-cal

    Double flare SS work hardens the bend back and prone to cracking
     
    Poh likes this.
  7. woodiewagon46
    Joined: Mar 14, 2013
    Posts: 1,646

    woodiewagon46
    Member
    from New York

    I agree with the 37* flare and A-N fittings. 3/16" is a SOB to double flare.
     
    milwscruffy and Poh like this.
  8. nochop
    Joined: Nov 13, 2005
    Posts: 1,594

    nochop
    Member
    from norcal

    I double flared mine, pita.... I put the tool in a vice, seemed to have more success that way. Bought 1/2 dozen dies from McMaster Carr. Used solder to make proto types. I also used roll stainless from Summit or Jegs. Good luck, my finished product looks good NO leaks after 18 years. I'm not sure I would do it again though
     
  9. I have never been able to double flair stainless, HRP
     
  10. 55Thunderboy
    Joined: Mar 27, 2009
    Posts: 356

    55Thunderboy
    Member
    from NYC

    so im not the only one who struggled with these, i also have 37 degree dies which came in my kit and i am sure this would be easier but i would then need adaptors to screw into stuff like brake drums and master cylinders. I just use the standard 3/8-24 thread fittings (stainless or cad plated steel) on 3/16 line for almost everything since thats what i got in my tool box. I need to call Jegs Monday to ask about the pre-made lines versus the coiled line. I remember a few years back i attempted to make stainless fuel lines with a friend, well that ended up in a half a tank of fuel leaking all over the garage and wife flipping out. Any of you guys try the Nicop material for lines?
     
  11. saltflats
    Joined: Aug 14, 2007
    Posts: 10,079

    saltflats
    Member
    from Missouri

    You will fall in love with the Nicop or cunifer line .
    Very easy to work with.
    What are you using to cut the stainless?
     
    treb11 and TagMan like this.
  12. 55Thunderboy
    Joined: Mar 27, 2009
    Posts: 356

    55Thunderboy
    Member
    from NYC

    I use a Rigid tubing cutter with better wheels which work great on the line to cut, its the flaring that is a total bitch it seems.
     
  13. 55Thunderboy
    Joined: Mar 27, 2009
    Posts: 356

    55Thunderboy
    Member
    from NYC

    well ck this, did some more reading, the coiled stainless tubing is 0.028 wall and "double annealed" for making flaring and bending easier. I can not find any info if the pre flared tubes are even double annealed or not but this might be the issue i am facing. I do know the straight lines i have been using are a PITA to bend and flare. If the tubing is different then il need to invest in a coil straightener and start using the coil kits instead.
     
    dana barlow likes this.
  14. 32v
    Joined: May 20, 2007
    Posts: 947

    32v
    Member
    from v.i.

    try using a cut off wheel ,the tube cutter actually bends the tube in a bit
     
  15. Does the same technique stand for stainless as for regular line?. I only cut the line with an abrasive cutoff wheel (the tubing cutter work hardens the tube), clean out the inside of any slag or burrs, put a slight angle on the tube outside edge with a file so it's not square and then flare. The chamfer will help or almost always stop the tube from splitting when it's flared. I haven't had a bad flare in many years since using this technique and buying the hydro flaring kit.

    Also it's been my understanding that you need to mash the flare onto the fitting a few times (tighten and loosen) with stainless to get a good seal.
     
    Montana1 likes this.
  16. 55Thunderboy
    Joined: Mar 27, 2009
    Posts: 356

    55Thunderboy
    Member
    from NYC

    thanks for these tips, i never did anything to the OD with a file before but will try this in the garage tomorrow. I use a countersunk bit to always clean up the ID. Now i am hearing from quite a few that the tube cutter might be an issue, the cutoff wheel is easy but can you advise how to cut the tube perfectly straight? if the line isnt cut perfect in the flare die i have it because scrap. much appreciate this will take another stab at this tomorrow.
     
  17. Sheep Dip
    Joined: Dec 29, 2010
    Posts: 1,572

    Sheep Dip
    Member
    from Central Ca

    This is the only way to go^.......^have done two cars complete with zero issues. Earls makes all the parts needed. I purchased all of my parts thru Speedway
     
    Montana1 likes this.
  18. 55Thunderboy
    Joined: Mar 27, 2009
    Posts: 356

    55Thunderboy
    Member
    from NYC

    was anxious to try the tips you guys suggested tonight, no luck. I now think i found the issue. the coiled stainless line kits have a wall thickness of 0.028, the wall thickness of the pre-flared tubes is not disclosed on any vendors website. I took my caliper and measured the wall thickness of the lines i get from Jegs and they read 0.039 to 0.044 wall thickness. Im not metal specialist but this is quite a difference i think that can be causing my issues. I tried two more flares tonight on scrap and they have cracks on the inner seat when i put my glasses on it was obvious. I need to order new coiled line material and a tube straightener this week. so pissed to redo all these hard lines.
     
  19. I've never done stainless, so I didn't know if the same technique would transfer over. On straightening out your cut after the cutoff wheel, I just use a file.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2017
    saltflats likes this.
  20. Sheep Dip
    Joined: Dec 29, 2010
    Posts: 1,572

    Sheep Dip
    Member
    from Central Ca

    No need for a tube straightener if you have a cable come-a-long and 2 pairs of vise grips pliers.
    Flat'n each end clamp it with the pliers and stretch it just till it straightens with the come-a-long and a car bumper or other stationary item. You lose maybe 2" each end to file 13
     
  21. hotcargo
    Joined: Nov 9, 2005
    Posts: 307

    hotcargo
    Member

    To those proposing to use stainless brake lines

    the secret to double flaring 3/16 stainless brake line is to use annealed 304 tubing.......... I use a Sykes Pickavant flaring tool that I purchased in the '70's , I've done thousands of flares with no issues and its still performs like brand new

    cheers Steve in Oz
     
    nochop likes this.
  22. Mr T body
    Joined: Nov 2, 2005
    Posts: 2,144

    Mr T body
    Alliance Vendor
    from SoCal

    And max .028 wall.....
     
  23. OLDSMAN
    Joined: Jul 20, 2006
    Posts: 2,424

    OLDSMAN
    BANNED

    I have never used stainless lines, but have always been told to 37 degree flare instead of 45 degree double flare. It makes sense as stainless is harder than regular steel lines.
     
  24. seabeecmc
    Joined: Jan 28, 2005
    Posts: 987

    seabeecmc
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Straight Length - Strainless Steel Tubing & Fittings
    Inline Tube sells all the materials to "do it yourself". Although we have thousands of preformed applications ready to be bolted on, this may not work for a modified car or truck. When retoring a classic, a preformed set is the way to go, but heavy modifications or unusual cars require the materals to make the necessary changes. Inline Tube offers all the tube, fittings, spring wrap and valves to get the job done the first time.

    45 degrees is the standard American automotive specification. It requires a double flare to rest on the seat of each component. Brake lines on all production cars and trucks used a 45 degree double flare. Straight sets are designed for production car plumbing on a non-factory application. Additional components for street rods and custom sysetms are in the street rod plumbing section. Many of the items are the same, but this section is for production cars with brake modifications.

    Quick Tip: Tubing
    When flaring a tube, it is important to read all the instructions carefully. Before you flare the tube, deburr and chamfer both edges of the tube. This allows the tube to roll over and create a smooth edge. To deburr the inside edge, use a drill or file and rotate the file in the opening of the tube; the outside edge can be done with a standard file. Tube cracking is caused when the tube is not properly deburred. Do not cut tube with a tube cutter. When the cutter becomes dull, it hardens the end of the tube causing flaring to be very difficult. Flaring tube takes practice and an understanding of how the tool works. Once the practice is put in, the understanding will follow.


    I have been very pleased with the quality, fit and seal of the stainless tubing supplied by INLINE TUBE. Ron
     
  25. 55Thunderboy
    Joined: Mar 27, 2009
    Posts: 356

    55Thunderboy
    Member
    from NYC

    hey guys since i need to re-plumb everything over i wanted to possibly use -37 for 4 fittings and 45 double for the rest, is this a bad idea to mix this up in a system? I also want to use -3AN bulkheads on both front aprons for the lines to connect, for the AN bulkheads can i use aluminum ones or i need steel AN bulkheads? does this even matter? parts suppliers do not designate this based on material. I got to put a parts list together tonight.
     
  26. Using a wheel type tubing cutter work hardens the end of the tube. (Stainless is notorious for this) After making your cut, heat the end red hot and cover with dry sand so it cools slowly, this will make a big difference. (of course you now have sand in your line that must be cleaned out)
    The best solution is to leave the stainless alone and use Cunifer. It is even more corrosion resistant and so easy to bend and form you can braid it.
     
    brad2v likes this.
  27. oj
    Joined: Jul 27, 2008
    Posts: 6,247

    oj
    Member

    Brake lines & fitting have to be steel per DOT and all race sanctioning bodies I am aware of, no aluminum.
     
  28. dana barlow
    Joined: May 30, 2006
    Posts: 3,890

    dana barlow
    Member
    from Miami Fla.
    1. Y-blocks

    Nope & Nope,not SS
     
  29. slo-dat
    Joined: Mar 5, 2010
    Posts: 87

    slo-dat
    Member
    from Coulee, WA
    1. Upholstery

    This deburring tool made the difference for me. I get consistent good flares after adding this to the prep. I use the Mastercool hydraulic flare tool.
     
    Blues4U likes this.
  30. dirty old man
    Joined: Feb 2, 2008
    Posts: 8,543

    dirty old man
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    My dealings with the stainless have convinced me that if I ever do another entire system from scratch, I'll use cunifer.
     
    slo-dat and saltflats like this.

Share This Page

Register now to get rid of these ads!

Archive

Copyright © 1995-2020 The Jalopy Journal: Steal our stuff, we'll kick your teeth in. Terms of Service. Privacy Policy.

Atomic Industry
Forum software by XenForo™ ©2010-2014 XenForo Ltd.