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SROD or T5 behind Ford straight six???

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Fat Hack, Aug 12, 2007.

  1. Fat Hack
    Joined: Nov 30, 2002
    Posts: 7,709

    Fat Hack
    Member
    from Detroit

    Can an old Ford 170 or 200 straight six be hooked up to a T5 or SROD four speed tranny without an adapter?

    My memory on this is fuzzy...but weren't 1979-81 Mustangs and Capris available with a 200 (3.3L) straight six? Seems to me that the standard tranny behind that motor would've been the SROD four speed, with an automatic as an option???

    If this was available...would those components (bellhousing, plate, flywheel, etc) fit the earler (1960s/early 70s) 170 or 200 Ford six??

    Could Ford have really slipped up and made it THAT simple?!?

    Anyone tried this???
     
  2. Omega
    Joined: Jul 11, 2006
    Posts: 876

    Omega
    Member
    from Mass

    My mother has a 80 mustang with a 200 straight backed by a c3 tranny. I never thought of that to be honest, if they can use a t-5 then i found my next engine! I wish i had the car/engine but we junked it after i used it in highschool as my project..i wanted to pull the motor but school wouldnt alow it because it was ''messy'' WTF kinda autoshop is that...!
     
  3. Fat Hack
    Joined: Nov 30, 2002
    Posts: 7,709

    Fat Hack
    Member
    from Detroit

    I've seen several 79-81 Mustangs and Capris with the 200 six and the automatic transmission, but the 2.3 four came with an old Pinto/Mustang II SROD four speed that was also used behind the V8s in Mustangs up until the T5 replaced it in 1983. I just wonder if the SROD four speed was available behind the 200 six in 79-81 or 82 Mustangs?? That would make it a breeze! Assuming one could find those parts TODAY!)
     
  4. Fat Hack
    Joined: Nov 30, 2002
    Posts: 7,709

    Fat Hack
    Member
    from Detroit

    Thanks for the link. One of the replies over there suggested that a 250 six from the 70s uses the same bellhousing as a small block Ford V8???

    If that's true, it makes the SROD or T5 swap easy...if using a 250 six popper!

    (I know the 240/300 six from the Ford truck line-up is supposed to use the small block bellhousing pattern, but I didn't know that the 250 did as well???)
     

  5. Flat Ernie
    Joined: Jun 5, 2002
    Posts: 8,406

    Flat Ernie
    Tech Editor

    Hack - I think only the 240/300 used the small block bellhousing - I believe the 200/250 was a different bellhousing, but wouldn't bet a large sum of money on it. ;)

    Not aware of any Mustang/Capri 200/manual combos - probably thin on the ground. I hated working on them - they seemed to like to eat water pumps & changing it was a bear due to all the funky bracketry in the way...
     
  6. Fat Hack
    Joined: Nov 30, 2002
    Posts: 7,709

    Fat Hack
    Member
    from Detroit

    According to the text in the link below, the 250 engine uses the small block bellhousing. The only glitch seems to be finding manual trans flywheels for the 250. A small block flywheel will bolt up, but the 250 is internally balanced and needs a 0 balance flywheel.

    Aside from that, it looks as if a Mustang II V8 SROD bellhousing would bolt up to a 250, allowing the trans to be used as well...

    http://www.fordsix.com/200-250.htm
     
  7. curtiswyant
    Joined: Feb 6, 2005
    Posts: 461

    curtiswyant
    Member

    I just threw one of those flywheels in the dumpster. It was recently resurfaced too...bought it mistakenly thinking it was for a SBF :rolleyes:
     
  8. Flat Ernie
    Joined: Jun 5, 2002
    Posts: 8,406

    Flat Ernie
    Tech Editor

    Hmm - learn something new every day - whoda thunkit? ;)
     
  9. warbozz
    Joined: May 29, 2005
    Posts: 720

    warbozz
    Member

    Yes indeed, all the 250's use the same bellhousing bolt pattern as a SBF- which makes an AOD backed 250 a very appealing option. The '80-'83 200 can be modified to use the SBF bellhousing pattern as well. I just put a late '70's 200 in my Falcon because it has a dual bell housing pattern and would allow me to keep the old Ford-O-Matic.
     
  10. ray
    Joined: Jun 25, 2001
    Posts: 3,760

    ray
    Member

    yes the 250 and i believe later model 200's use the small block bellhousing. i'm running a 250, late(r) model mustang cable bellhousing and a t-5 pulled from a turbo coupe. for the flywheel, i just bought a new v8 flywheel, milled out the extra weight on the backside and had it rebalanced. the machine shop can remove the extra weight for you, i just did it myself to save money cause i have access to the right equipment.
     
    mcnally351 likes this.
  11. ChrisDP
    Joined: Mar 4, 2001
    Posts: 100

    ChrisDP
    Member

    There are a few ways you can put a t5 behind a 200 six.

    For high mount starters...

    1.There are adapters available for the 2.77 and 3.03 3 speed bellhousings. 2.There is a very rare T4 (non overdrive 4 speed) cable clutch bellhousing that came in fox chassis cars. This is a direct bolt on for the T5.
    3. SROD cable clutch bellhousing that came in Granadas and fox chassis cars. This requires you to enlarge the input shaft retainer hole, weld up two transmission pattern holes, and drill the T5 pattern. SROD is a direct swap.

    For low mount starters 81-83...

    1. The pattern on these blocks is 2/3 of a V8 pattern and a T5 bell can be modified to work, with no adapters.

    As stated before 250's use the SBF pattern but require a 0 imbalance flywheel.



    I have a '68 200 high mount starter block with a modified SROD bellhousing and T5

    [​IMG]
     
  12. mustangsix
    Joined: Mar 7, 2005
    Posts: 1,297

    mustangsix
    Member

    Fat Hack,
    I was the one who originally worked up all those Fordsix articles. I can tell you that if you have the choice, almost any T-5 will be a better driving car than one with an SROD.

    The SROD was designed to meet the need for a deep overdrive back in the late 70's fuel crisis era. It's regarded as a fairly tough transmission, but the ratios are so wide that the rpm drop between gears will annoy you.

    Any V8 Mustang T-5 will work fine, but the 4cyl versions work pretty well behind a 200 as well. You just need a different pilot bearing to accommodate the smaller pilot on the 4cyl T-5.

    This is a shot of a Mustang t-5 adapted to my aluminum headed EFI aussie 250 Ford six. That's a US 250 in the background for comparison.
     

    Attached Files:

  13. Fat Hack
    Joined: Nov 30, 2002
    Posts: 7,709

    Fat Hack
    Member
    from Detroit

    Wow! I didn't realize that the cool Aussie-headed motor on FordSix.com belonged to a HAMBer...but I shoulda know! VERY cool indeed!!:) :cool:

    I know the T5s had better ratios overall than the SROD transmissions did, but I've had lots of old Pintos with the SROD tranny and the ratios never seemed that bad to me. I think alot of it depends on the engine involved and the rear axle ratio, though. Most of them Pintos had 2.3 litre four bangers in them with 2.73 or 3.08 axle ratios. My current ride has 3.55 gears and the striaght six makes more torque than a four popper, so I figured it'd be an okay combination...especially since I have a perfectly good SROD trans already!

    But, it looks like the SROD is easy enough to do behind a 250 using Mustang II V8 parts...but not so easy to do behind a 170 or 200. Around here, NOBODY has any 250 engines available (and I mean NOBODY...they just don't exist anymore!)...but 170 and 200 motors out of older Falcons, Mustangs, Comets, Mavericks, etc are still pretty easy to locate and afford, strangely enough.

    Truthfully...I just want this car on the road. The 170/200 engines use a smaller trans and bellhousing, and most I see for sale come with automatics still bolted to them. So be it, then...problem solved! Ha Ha!

    (You'd think that with all the millions of Mavericks, Granadas, and other assorted Ford & Mercury vehicles sold throughout the 70s with the 250 engine that SOME of those motors would still be around...especially in DEARBORN for crying out loud...but it just ain't so!! Ah, well...they were sludge pumps anyway...and "smaller is better" in the world of engine swaps, right?! Ha Ha...a 170 or 200 it is!!!)

    :D :D :D
     
  14. mustangsix
    Joined: Mar 7, 2005
    Posts: 1,297

    mustangsix
    Member

    Since you already have an SROD, here's the recipe:

    Find a 67-later flywheel, block plate, and bellhousing for a 3.03 toploader-style 3-spd from a 200. Mustangs and Falcons are the best bet and they are very common.

    Use a late model Fairmont diaphragm pressure plate with the early release bearing for a smoother, lighter clutch. The Fairmont or the earlier Mustang/Falcon clutch disc will work.

    Then, with that bell, the SROD is a bolt on.
     
  15. ChrisDP
    Joined: Mar 4, 2001
    Posts: 100

    ChrisDP
    Member

    Fat Hack, I have a 3.03 bellhousing and fork, I gotta keep the flywheel and block plate though for my swap.
     
  16. Fat Hack
    Joined: Nov 30, 2002
    Posts: 7,709

    Fat Hack
    Member
    from Detroit

    That sounds pretty simple...you are deffinitely the MAN when it comes to Ford six stuff, for sure!!!

    Now, one possible kink in the chain here...my car uses a cable activated clutch, is there a bellhousing and/or clutch fork for this particular goofball set-up???

    (From what I am piecing together, it seems that there is a pretty rare Fox chassis bellhousing, called a T4 or something like that?? From the sound of it, that one might work??)

    Thanks for the EXCELLENT and simple-to-understand advice so far!!

    :cool: :cool: :cool:
     
  17. ChrisDP
    Joined: Mar 4, 2001
    Posts: 100

    ChrisDP
    Member

    The SROD bell is cable clutch as well.
     
  18. mustangsix
    Joined: Mar 7, 2005
    Posts: 1,297

    mustangsix
    Member

    The T4 Bell is cable acutated but it has the same pattern as a T-5. It's also deeper to accommodate the longer T4 input shaft. Your SROD won't bolt on.

    There is an SROD bell for a 200, but they seem to be hard to find. You need to look for 78-82 Fairmonts and Mustangs.

    If you can't find an SROD bell, you can also use a later pull-type release arm with the early bell by elongating the opening and fabbing up a cable bracket or having one welded on. There's enough meat in the bell to move the pivot to the other side of the bell for the pull style arm.

    Here's how one guy did it:
     

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