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Speedway SBC Front Engine Mount??

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by qzjrd5, Jan 17, 2006.

  1. qzjrd5
    Joined: Nov 23, 2004
    Posts: 1,248

    qzjrd5
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Troy, MI

    Anyone ever use the front cradle style mount engine crossmember from Speedway (PN 135-6023)? The one that mounts to the front of the block to the bolt holes below the water pump (on either side of the harmonic balancer roughly).

    I have been told that you cannot easily run a mechanical fuel pump with this set up. Is this true?

    I was planning on running this setup on my A project with a small block chevy. Just wanted to get the pros/cons on it.

    Thanks for the help - you guys rock.

    Mike
     
  2. Deuce Roadster
    Joined: Sep 8, 2002
    Posts: 9,520

    Deuce Roadster
    Member Emeritus

    I had a front motor plate type mount in a 40 Ford with 283....similar to the Speedway one and a electric fuel pump was required.

    Model A's more real narrow in the front area also.....side to side......I barely have room for a mechanical pump in my 32....

    :D
     
  3. Dakota
    Joined: Jan 21, 2004
    Posts: 1,534

    Dakota
    Member
    from Beulah, ND

    I JUST put one in a 49 chevy with that plate, and it looks like a Electric pump is going to be required, and we had to modify the power steering pump mount to work with it also.
     
  4. BELLM
    Joined: Nov 16, 2002
    Posts: 2,588

    BELLM
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    No you cannot run a mechanical fuel pump and you need some sort of mid mount setup rather than a rear tranny mount because of the distance & unsupported weight when you use a tranny designed for side engine mounts to do it right. The 55-57 Chev used front mounts but the rear mounts were attached to the bellhousing. There are some mid nmount kits on the market, Eklers (sp?), etc for Corvettes using early blocks with TH 350, etc.

    I am running a front saddle mount on my roadster, probably came from Speedway, with a TH 350, on the road for a year now, over 5,000 miles, inc quarter mile runs in the high 12s, with no problems, lots of people do, but I have heard of broken bellhousings and broken transmission cases on automatics, but I plan on adding mid mounts when I blow the car apart to finish it. If that ever happens
     
    lothiandon1940 likes this.
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  5. 28pontiac
    Joined: Nov 14, 2003
    Posts: 192

    28pontiac
    Member

    Yep... Mechanical pump won't work. I have the Speedway front plate and biscuits, frame mounts are my own.

    Not to spark another debate or hi-jack, there have been discussions whether or not the front plate and 350/400 with standard tail tranny mount are smart things to run... There have been a few reports (on other threads, you may be able to do a search) that claim the tranny / motor joint fails. I have a real mild SBC and have been running it for a couple years with no issues, but I keep trying to decide if I want to change to the more common side SBC mounts. I am reluctant to change because I would have steering box clearence issues. I don't think there was ever a true outcome to the debate...

    Andy
     
  6. qzjrd5
    Joined: Nov 23, 2004
    Posts: 1,248

    qzjrd5
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Troy, MI

    Thanks for the info guys on the fuel pump and that motor mount set up.

    Just one point though, my dad's '61 vette has the front mount (between the block and the water pump) and no bellhousing mount. The only rear mount is on the trans, in the normal location.

    No issues with it or any other solid axle vettes that I know of with respect to mouting failures, trans/block cracks, etc.

    Mike
     
  7. CruZer
    Joined: Jan 24, 2003
    Posts: 1,903

    CruZer
    Member


    I heard the same stories, and I can only say,I ran the old Hurst front mount and a Pete & Jakes rear tranny mount in my '40 Ford with a 327 /TH350 and a 350/TH350 and nothing in the middle without a problem for years. The motors were semi-race and the tranny was built up and I beat on that car for 30K miles and when I bought it,it already had 60K on it. I did have a driveline vibration that I could never find but I never had a driveline failure.
     
    lothiandon1940 likes this.
  8. yep elec pump , BUT I really have to step in here and say that that mid mount /rear mount thing is mostly a common misconception, take a look at a lot of old hotrods ,gassers and other drag cars MOST BITD ran the front mount /rear trans mount even w 4 spds (some had linkage problems from twisting to be honest) and DEEEEEP gears , I have done almost 15 of the old ones this way AND have only lost one due to a cracked bellhousing, and that was most likely damaged 'cause it came out of severely wrecked car and a sandy take off b4 the tires grabbed, yes, metal fatigue can and will come into play over a LONG period , but none of my cars ever stayed together more n 10 years anyway,:D,tourqing ALL the bolts AND rechecking often is a must if you do it this way however.side mount and RR trans mount IS best , but the old way WILL work.
     
  9. 47fordcoe
    Joined: Dec 8, 2005
    Posts: 266

    47fordcoe
    Member
    from San Diego

    I have an old hurst front engine mount mated to a SBC with a offenhauser adapter to a ford flathead 4 speed tranny. mounted only at the front of the engine and the stock tranny location. no problems what-so-ever.
     

    Attached Files:

  10. 47fordcoe
    Joined: Dec 8, 2005
    Posts: 266

    47fordcoe
    Member
    from San Diego

    forgot to mention that I have an electric pump. hope this helps.
    Aaron


     
  11. burger
    Joined: Sep 19, 2002
    Posts: 2,347

    burger
    Member
    from burbs

    I'm using a Hurst engine mount (never heard them called Speedway?!?) on my '31 Coupe. The engine is a 283 and I'm using a '55-'57 bellhousing with the mid-mounts. Call me paranoid, but I don't like it when my stuff breaks.


    Ed

    PS- No room for the mechanical pump...

    PPS- I made my own frame mounts and the biscuits are from the McMaster-Carr catalog.
     
  12. Slag Kustom
    Joined: May 10, 2004
    Posts: 4,312

    Slag Kustom
    Member

    my friends race car would not shift due to flexbetween the motor and trans. but this was at 8,000 rpm on the street it should not be much of a problem.
     
  13. bigken
    Joined: Jul 7, 2005
    Posts: 2,788

    bigken
    Member

    Excellent thread, here. What kind of issues will I have runnin' a motor plate (saddle) with a stock BBC and a TH400? Other than the fuel pump, goin' in a '33 Ford pickup, stock frame.
     
  14. Hackerbilt
    Joined: Aug 13, 2001
    Posts: 6,230

    Hackerbilt
    Member

    Used to build Hurst type mounts for engine swaps into street race vehicles.
    Had two bellhousings crack in different vehicles within 3 years so we started using midplates for safety.
    I built my Hurst mounts with a slight kink in the bottom to clear mechanical pumps.
     
  15. 3 points , first if your gonna do 8 grand shifts a motor restarint strap or chain is mandatory ,I run one c the pic
    second I use poly biscuts ala 55-7 chevy and poly trans mount -less give
    third ,Speedway Motors is repoping the hurst saddle a bit inaccurate but it works
     

    Attached Files:

  16. I have a Hurst/Speedway style front mount with only rear trans mount in my Model A, sbc with powerglide and no problems. Car was built a long time ago with this setup. It is running mechanical fuel pump as well. Can't really tell you why it works in my car but no one else seem's to be able to fit them in.
     
  17. Make your own using these dimensions and you can use the stock mechanical pump.
     

    Attached Files:

  18. 6-71
    Joined: Sep 15, 2005
    Posts: 539

    6-71
    Member

    whenI built my 39 chev back in the early 70's I used a hurst front saddle mount,with a mechanical fuel pump. I think I may have used a couple of washers between the block and the mount. I used the rear mount on my turbo 400 and ran this setup for several years before switching to side mounts.
     
  19. NYCDrums
    Joined: Aug 10, 2004
    Posts: 276

    NYCDrums
    Member

    My front plate is notched for the mechanical pump to clear. I didn't do it, but it seems to work fine.
     
  20. bigken
    Joined: Jul 7, 2005
    Posts: 2,788

    bigken
    Member

    Johnny, that drawing for a SBC or BBC?
    Thanks man -


     
  21. Small block.
     
  22. qzjrd5
    Joined: Nov 23, 2004
    Posts: 1,248

    qzjrd5
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Troy, MI

    Johnny Fast-

    Dig that drawing - thanks for that design. Looks like I should go buy some steel!
     
  23. lake_harley
    Joined: Jun 4, 2017
    Posts: 592

    lake_harley
    Member

    I realize this is a very old thread but I had a question about using the front cradle mount and using a mechanical fuel pump, and posted it on a more current thread. I was wondering about benefits and problems of using front vs side mounts. https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/flat-head-or-early-chevy.1156041/ See my post #22

    If using the dimensions of the cradle mount drawing in post #17 of this thread I wonder if the height and width of the cradle is appropriate for a SBC in a '48 Ford using "normal" rubber mount biscuits like those from Speedway. Width would be easy enough to alter as needed, but wonder if the crank centerline height would put the SBC at about the same height as the stock flathead?

    Thanks.

    Lynn
     
  24. Splitbudaba
    Joined: Dec 30, 2014
    Posts: 327

    Splitbudaba
    Member

    IMG_0727.JPG Here's my 32', with SBC, cast iron bell housing, and mechanical pump. Purchased the u-weld kit from Speedway or ebay. Sat in the garage bench racing one evening, got the crazy idea to joggle the mount enough to use the stock mechanical pump. Just bought a wider lower strap and made some gussets from the old metal. Have not run it yet, but expect no issues. Was not the easiest way to go, but for the look and ease of plumbing, it was worth it.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2019
    40ragtopdown likes this.
  25. Hurst supplied 3/8" thick spacers with one 1/2" hole, and a 1/2" wide slot to be used with their saddle mounts. The early spacers had 2, 1/2" holes. I have both types on the shelf if I ever need them.
     
    Atwater Mike and Splitbudaba like this.
  26. 56sedandelivery
    Joined: Nov 21, 2006
    Posts: 5,656

    56sedandelivery
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    ^^^^^I was just going to say that!^^^^^. There used to be a HAMB member here, deto, that has't been around since he went into business for himself, that had a 49 Chevrolet Coupe; sure wish he'd come back with his build. He was making a lot of his own parts, including a front "Hurst style" saddle mount. After his "prototype mount", he revised it to include a notched out area for a mechanical fuel pump. I always thought some longer nuts (not sure what they're actually called) about 1 to 2 inches long, and longer bolts, could be used to space the mount forward on the engine, to clear the fuel pump. We used 16 of those long nuts, and longer grade 8 bolts, to raise the front suspension cradle on our 51 Chevrolet Bus Coupe, then added side plates welded in on the engine side of the suspension attachment point as extra support.
    I am Butch/56sedandelivery.
     
  27. Atwater Mike
    Joined: May 31, 2002
    Posts: 9,631

    Atwater Mike
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Ditto on the spacers HURST supplied in the last years of motor mount production. That, and the use of the Delco pump, with screws. Clock the upper plate to your desire, and it all fit.
    BUT, (and it's a big one!) Splitbudaba wins this one hands down with his 30 degree leg-out on the pump side. (Is it also proportional on the drivers side, Budaba?)
     
  28. wayne-o
    Joined: Jan 22, 2006
    Posts: 266

    wayne-o
    Member

    I put a 1/4" spacer between the mount and the block and also bent the mount forward a small amount to clear the mechanical pump.
     
  29. golferforpar
    Joined: Nov 7, 2009
    Posts: 32

    golferforpar
    Member
    from Wisc

    What thickness steel is used for thus style motor mount?
    Thanks
     
  30. wayne-o
    Joined: Jan 22, 2006
    Posts: 266

    wayne-o
    Member

    I used 1/4" to make mine.
     

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