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Technical Speedway Early Ford Hub Failure BEWARE!

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Nailhead Jason, Oct 8, 2019.

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  1. Fortunateson
    Joined: Apr 30, 2012
    Posts: 2,353

    Fortunateson
    Member

    Well "old Tim" in the Speedway video did refer to the front hub as a casting so no blame there. If they advertise as forged well they would be up th creek. PWood had a great observation.

    Now as far as "Chinese junk" I call BS. It's the companies that farm out the manufactruing to the Chinese who are to blame. Make it look good and keep the cost down is their mantra. So you might want to lay the blame where it belongs. If the companies wanted high quality they would have to pay for it and they might as well make the parts in N. America. But they and/or their shareholders want to make a profit, sometimes more than they should, so they order cheap and let the cards fall where they may.
     
    Scumdog, Hombre, mountainman2 and 7 others like this.
  2. Fordors
    Joined: Sep 22, 2016
    Posts: 2,162

    Fordors
    Member

    Some here are saying Ford hubs were forgings, others say cast steel and the jury seems to be out on Speedway even though the catalog states steel. There’s no way Speedway would say steel if in fact they were cast iron.
    Boling Brothers catalog cast hubs (they don’t say but most likely steel) does anybody rag on them?
     
  3. denis4x4
    Joined: Apr 23, 2005
    Posts: 3,289

    denis4x4
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Colorado

    [QUOTE="

    Now as far as "Chinese junk" I call BS. It's the companies that farm out the manufactruing to the Chinese who are to blame. Make it look good and keep the cost down is their mantra. So you might want to lay the blame where it belongs. If the companies wanted high quality they would have to pay for it and they might as well make the parts in N. America. But they and/or their shareholders want to make a profit, sometimes more than they should, so they order cheap and let the cards fall where they may.[/QUOTE]

    The “blame” really belongs to the consumer that demands lower prices. Manufacturers are in business to make a profit and if they can’t make a price point that the consumer will accept, they go out of business.
     
  4. Fortunateson
    Joined: Apr 30, 2012
    Posts: 2,353

    Fortunateson
    Member

    The “blame” really belongs to the consumer that demands lower prices. Manufacturers are in business to make a profit and if they can’t make a price point that the consumer will accept, they go out of business.[/QUOTE]

    Well I see your point but let's not forget the shareholders wanting to make money, pension plans that want to make money, consumers whose buying powered has shrunk considerably since the 80s especially in relation to execs, and on and on. But for those of us, and I don't think it is a minuscule amount, who prefer to buy quality at a reasonable not cheap price, they could get their act together more than it is.
     
    Boneyard51 likes this.
  5. Old HAMB Metallurgist here. That could be cast steel, as the structure of any casting will appear similar to that in fracture. All the comments about steel tearing are for a different type of product: rolled or forged. Those have significantly higher ductility than a casting, even steel casting.

    After the hub is removed, you can do a spark test at home to see if it is steel or cast iron for a rough check. Take the hub and hold against a grinding wheel, look at the spark stream. Then hold a piece of known steel (it can be rolled or forged, just ensure it is steel) against the grinding wheel and look at that stream of sparks. Now take a piece of known cast iron and do the same and view the spark stream. Which does the hub look more like? A critical eye can tell the difference pretty easy between steel (i.e. low carbon) and cast iron (i.e. higher carbon).
     
  6. brigrat
    Joined: Nov 9, 2007
    Posts: 4,790

    brigrat
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Wa.St.

    I gave you a like on first post not because of the carnage but because it's the first time I have seen your sedan! That's the way they were built and driven when I was growing up back in the '50's & '60's. Thanks for the memories!
     
    lothiandon1940 likes this.
  7. deucemac
    Joined: Aug 31, 2008
    Posts: 973

    deucemac
    Member

    This is just an observation on Speedway. I have bought many items from Speedway over the years. Generally I find parts from other manufacturers sold by Speedway are okay. However, if Speedway makes it in house or farms it out, I have had problems from minor to major. My remedy, buy only name brand and NOT Speedway branded parts from them. IMHO
     
  8. BLACKNRED
    Joined: May 8, 2010
    Posts: 274

    BLACKNRED
    Member

    This is what happens with the Chinese.

    you take them a part and or a drawing, stipulate your tolerances and materials to be used and they produce you a sample of a pristine item, he supplies a cost, then the games begin, you state the cost is too dear, the Chinaman says ok i can get the price down, you think you will get the same pristine item, but alas the Chinaman has just taken some of the good bits out. and so the game goes on, this applies to all products the Chinese make. Old saying, buyer beware.
    The only way to prevent this is to have your own factory in China.

    My 2c worth.

    I bought some new "stamped rockers" for Chev engine, Elgin brand, alas made in China, smashed one, turns out they were cast and not stamped, ended up using good OEM items. moral of the story, don't use Chinese stuff for critical components.
    100_2573.JPG
     
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  9. finn
    Joined: Jan 25, 2006
    Posts: 587

    finn
    Member

    That rocker arm isn’t cast, it’s stamped.
     
    Deuces, Fordors and Blues4U like this.
  10. I think this is a pretty naive attitude, no matter what nationality you're dealing with.
     
    Stogy, lurker mick, Budget36 and 2 others like this.
  11. tubman
    Joined: May 16, 2007
    Posts: 4,373

    tubman
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I have a question about this. Did you ever check the torque on the axle nuts?
     
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  12. Hnstray
    Joined: Aug 23, 2009
    Posts: 10,680

    Hnstray
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Quincy, IL

    This thread is like too many others when discussing failed part(s)........

    Plenty of factual unknowns and uncertainties.....but absolutely no shortage of ill-informed opinions.

    A few posters were more discerning and offered useful observations.

    Ray
     
  13. The Ford engineers knew their metallurgy. They came up with many proprietary materials and processes, this is why a used 75-year old part is better than a "new" one. The chinks are famous for copying something, but have no back-up behind what they crank out and sell us.
     
  14. oldtom69
    Joined: Dec 6, 2009
    Posts: 412

    oldtom69
    Member
    from grandin nd

    More anti-Speedway BS!You over-tighten a part going onto a taper and that is how it will break.Your worst case scenario of running in a busload of pregnant nuns is also BS-had that hub broken at highway speed you would have coasted to the side of the road with the hub and wheel attached.
     
  15. ididntdoit1960
    Joined: Dec 13, 2011
    Posts: 882

    ididntdoit1960
    Member
    from Western MA

    I get that some, most? goods out of China are of suspect quality - but can we not use the racial epitaphs......i dont care what generation you're from - its not OK
     
  16. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 14,269

    alchemy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Overtightened? I don't believe that. The Ford-directed torque is 200 ft-lbs and it is downright scary to be putting that torque on 80 year old axle shaft threads. I always stop a little short rather than go over, and I bet most other guys do to. Those thin little threads don't look like they'd take the torque when new, and I sure don't want to be disassembling a whole rearend just cause I stripped the threads on the absolute last part of the assembly.

    Undertightened? Maybe.
     
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  17. These were torqued to 200 ft lbs, pehaps the axle shaft was wallowed out in the key slot and that contributed to it. These were put on when I bought the axle and I just torqued them down after the rear was in the car and put the cotter pins in it. I may be completely at fault here. The point of this post was that I had never seen a rear hub break like this, any one that has looked at it, or I have asked about it had not seen one break like this either. I am not the first nor will I be the last to question the quality of speedways parts. They are the Wal Mart of speed shops and they have their place. But it has been known for years that they farm out lots of their stuff to china, and well we know that the quality is not always the greatest from there. Have any of you bought any of the old ford bearings that come out of china? If you get 6 months out of them you are lucky.

    Like I said before I may be completely at fault here, I have heard and seen tons of sheared keys on banjos, but have not see a hub crack apart like this.
     
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  18. Obviously you haven't had an axle break at highway speed, which then allows the wheel to move out just enough for the tire to run into the fender, which then cuts the tire, which then deflates, which then allows the entire wheel and hub assembly to com off, which then allows the wheel cylinder pistons to pop out of the bores which then pumps all the brake fluid out of the master, which then gives you no brakes, as you coast to a stop on the side of the road if you didn't spin around sideways, or roll over into the ditch in the process.
     
  19. bangngears
    Joined: Aug 30, 2007
    Posts: 856

    bangngears
    Member
    from ofallon mo

    Speedway is the Walmart of speed shops!!:p
     
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  20. Hnstray
    Joined: Aug 23, 2009
    Posts: 10,680

    Hnstray
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Quincy, IL

    Your scenario may be the sequence if the axle breaks, but your axle did not break, nor did the broken hub separate from the axle. There is no assurance that it would have failed any differently on the highway or off.

    "IF" my Aunt had balls she'd be my Uncle........;)

    Ray
     
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  21. flynbrian48
    Joined: Mar 10, 2008
    Posts: 6,182

    flynbrian48
    Member

    Keyboard warriors are quick to ride in.

    Brian
     
  22. Mr T body
    Joined: Nov 2, 2005
    Posts: 2,021

    Mr T body
    Alliance Vendor
    from SoCal

    My observation for what it's worth. Where that hub cracked out at the keyway suggests the key was pushing up on the hub rather than just stopping rotation. Isn't it the taper's job to center and provide the interference for the transfer of power from the shaft to the hub?
     
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  23. Atwater Mike
    Joined: May 31, 2002
    Posts: 9,776

    Atwater Mike
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    While in here, (inside the taper of the hub) any time you are about to install key and hub, first clean both tapered surfaces, axle and hub; then use valve grinding compound (Clover brand, used for lapping valves) on the surfaces, car in gear (with opposite rear wheel on the ground) Lap the surfaces with the rough compound, 'till scratches are uniform. Now, wipe off surfaces and lap with the finer compound. Result will be a good, solid fit that will ensure Woodruff key has a long 'half-life'. (humor intended)
     
    joel, Stogy and Hnstray like this.
  24. Lots of opinions here, some good some argumentative, I get that. But, I think, we can all agree this is a freak thing. How many of you have seen a failure like this? I have (and have seen) broken axles, axle keys and torn up keyways both in the hub and axle. The parts rendered unusable but not broken like this. I would really like to know what happened like the rest of you.
     
    Nailhead Jason likes this.
  25. LOL, look at all the victim shaming.
     
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