Register now to get rid of these ads!

Projects Southeast Gassers 65 Comet Super Stock Wagon

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by southcross2631, Oct 28, 2020.

  1. Mike I'm sorry to hear you are thinking of selling but I understand needing the funds for your AFX project. Sorry to see the wagon leave but excited for the new build!

    I think you might be a little like me in that you enjoy the build more than the finished product

    Just a thought... (For you or a future owner) With lights, exhaust, and a gear change that wagon would make a nasty street bruiser!
     
  2. Weedburner
    Joined: Nov 16, 2010
    Posts: 211

    Weedburner
    Member
    from Wa State

    I'm guessing the review that wanted to defeat the 'tamer after the shifts either did not fully understand how it works, or had a power adder (my Hitmaster product is recommended for power adder cars). For a proper high rpm launch with a naturally aspirated car, there's no need to defeat the 'tamer for the shifts. That's because it allows you to adjust the rate that the clutch pulls the engine down, basically you are controlling the rate that engine inertia is hitting the input shaft. If you are looking at a rpm graph, the 'tamer controls the pulldown angle of the Erpm trace.

    Over simplified example of how the ClutchTamer works to make it easier to understand- Let's say you want to launch at 5000 without pulling the engine below 4500, the pulldown angle of that rpm trace is going to be pretty flat, basically pulling out 500rpm over 0.80 seconds. But then when you shift, you are going to be pulling down around 2000rpm. That same pulldown angle would take about 3.20 seconds to pull down 2000rpm after a shift, waaaaaaaaaay too much slipping. Raise launch rpm to 7500, adjust the tamer to pull the engine down 2000rpm in the same 0.80 seconds. Engine stays above 5500 during launch, and if you shift bouncing the clutch pedal off the stop, the clutch only slips about 0.80 seconds to pull the engine down 2000rpm after the shift.
    If you don't push the clutch pedal all the way to the stop during the shifts, the clutch will slip even less after shifts made using the clutch pedal. You do need to launch off the clutch pedal stop for consistency, but you don't need to bounce the pedal off the stop for the shifts.

    A dead hook 7500 launch is much quicker than a dead hook 5000rpm launch.

    Grant
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2021
    Thor1, bchctybob, KiWinUS and 2 others like this.
  3. southcross2631
    Joined: Jan 20, 2013
    Posts: 4,414

    southcross2631
    Member

    Will be pulling the motor tomorrow morning and delivering the car on Sunday.
     
    Thor1 and Joe Travers like this.
  4. oldiron 440
    Joined: Dec 12, 2018
    Posts: 2,401

    oldiron 440
    Member

    Wow, that was fast!
     
    Thor1, wvenfield and loudbang like this.
  5. saltflats
    Joined: Aug 14, 2007
    Posts: 10,929

    saltflats
    Member
    from Missouri

    Sounds like school is out, good luck on your next venture.
     
    Thor1 and loudbang like this.
  6. Wow, that was a fast sale! I've enjoyed following your build from the begining, and look foward to your next build.
     
    Thor1 and loudbang like this.
  7. Grant,Seeing we're almost done with Mike's venture here (Good luck ,Mike) I'd like to ask your opinion. Does a factory hydraulic clutch set-up typically slow done the launch i.e. reaction time and hit , compared to a cable set-up?
     
  8. wvenfield
    Joined: Nov 23, 2006
    Posts: 5,371

    wvenfield
    Member

    I hope whoever bought it continues to present it's progress here.
     
  9. suchadrag
    Joined: Jun 13, 2008
    Posts: 103

    suchadrag
    Member

    Do you know what the new owner has in mind for School's Out? I'm eagerly awaiting progress reports on your A/FXer.
     
    Thor1, Joe Travers and loudbang like this.
  10. Wow, hope they like the paint job, busted my ass to do that in short time
     
  11. 6sally6
    Joined: Feb 16, 2014
    Posts: 1,684

    6sally6
    Member

    MAN!!!!!!!!.........I hate to see the Schools Out swap owners!
    In my tiny-little-mind I was imagining it was my project!
    Who knows...........Mike building the A/FX'er and "maybe" the new owner will post about HIS new SEGA-ride!
    6sally6
     
    Thor1 likes this.
  12. Weedburner
    Joined: Nov 16, 2010
    Posts: 211

    Weedburner
    Member
    from Wa State

    Many oem hydraulic release systems use a simple form of flow restriction to slow clutch engagement. While the restriction makes the vehicle easier to casually drive and less likely to break parts, the flip side is that simple in-line hydraulic restriction causes problems with engagement after the shifts when strokes of the clutch pedal come in quick succession. Basically the restriction causes the system to "pump up" (similar to a brake system with a RPV) when going down the dragstrip. Driver looks like an idiot and thinks he missed a shift when rpm flares, in reality the throwout bearing pumped up and travelled too far, so takes longer for the clutch to re-engage.

    As far as reaction time, in my experience if the plumbing of the hydraulic system is proper, not much difference between cable and hydraulic. Both systems the bearing basically rides on the levers/fingers and are pretty consistent mechanically. Some have played with different shapes of clutch quadrants for the cable clutch FOX body cars, probably a little reaction time adjustment available there. You can also play with the depth of the clutch pedal stop of pretty much any stick car, have to nail that down before comparing the two.

    Grant
     
    Thor1 and loudbang like this.
  13. oldiron 440
    Joined: Dec 12, 2018
    Posts: 2,401

    oldiron 440
    Member

    Well you will never do warranty work on it, is the paint even dry yet?
     
    loudbang, ottoman and SilverJimmy like this.
  14. 6sally6
    Joined: Feb 16, 2014
    Posts: 1,684

    6sally6
    Member

    Speaking of the "tamer" clutch set-up..........and how many times a manual 4 speed shift is too violent to get the best 60 ft. times............what about the Pro Stocks and Pro Mods who still row the old 4 & 5 speed Lenco trannys?!
    Do they have slipper clutch set-ups?
    Old skool 60's /70's Lenco shifted cars seemed to rule the strip!
    Not arguing....just trying to learn
    6sally6
     
    Thor1 likes this.
  15. oldiron 440
    Joined: Dec 12, 2018
    Posts: 2,401

    oldiron 440
    Member

    They use a multi disk setup, there is a twin disk setup for milder aplacations also.
    I just saw this week that torque converters are used with the Lenco type of transmissions.
     
    loudbang likes this.
  16. Thanks, and I don't want to get too specific, and O/T here, but have you heard of opening up the orifice a tad? I assume it's in the clutch master, rather than the clutch slave?
     
  17. ottoman
    Joined: May 4, 2008
    Posts: 318

    ottoman
    Member
    from Wisconsin

    Kinda feel bad for Lloyd.. painted the car in a short amount of time so it could get to the track with his name on it and now its sold. Hope it continues to run the series with his paint on it!
     
  18. lippy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2006
    Posts: 5,668

    lippy
    Member
    from Ks

    Lenco with a convertor? Like to see how that works. Where does the fluid for the convertor come from? If I wanted consistency and durability and ease of maintenance and good customer support I would run a lenco. JMO
     
    loudbang likes this.
  19. lippy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2006
    Posts: 5,668

    lippy
    Member
    from Ks

    Your a good guy Lloyd. Lippy
     
    Lloyd's paint & glass likes this.
  20. southcross2631
    Joined: Jan 20, 2013
    Posts: 4,414

    southcross2631
    Member

    Lloyd part of the deal on the car is that the paint stay on until next year. Mark Hackett bought the car and it is in good hands.
    When I get ready for paint I will be coming back to see you except that I will be a paying customer.
    I couldn't ask you to paint another car without you charging me full price. I knew this was going to happen. The car was going to set in the garage for the rest of the season while I was saving up for a competitive engine combination anyway.
    This will be my last post on this thread . I am getting ready to deliver the car this morning. As soon as I let it out the car was for sale Mark contacted me and we worked a deal.
     
    Joe Travers and loudbang like this.
  21. oldiron 440
    Joined: Dec 12, 2018
    Posts: 2,401

    oldiron 440
    Member

    This is why I would never barter services with a racer.
    He thinks he doesn't owe a thing with simple rationalization.
     
    loudbang likes this.
  22. I'm good, didn't expect a gain from it. Plus i have more work than i can ask for. I was helping out where help was needed. And i did what i said I'd do. You're only as good as your word gentleman.
     
    Roothawg, alanp561, ottoman and 15 others like this.
  23. 51504bat
    Joined: May 22, 2010
    Posts: 3,019

    51504bat
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Well said. Just wish Lloyd wasn't so far away. Sounds like he would be just the go to guy for the body repair and paint on my Ranch Wagon. But then again the rocker and floor repair might be more extensive than he would want to take on.:cool:
     
    Thor1 and loudbang like this.
  24. Dick Stevens
    Joined: Aug 7, 2012
    Posts: 3,190

    Dick Stevens
    Member

    You have most certainly shown that you are a good man Lloyd!
     
    Thor1, KiWinUS and loudbang like this.
  25. Joe Travers
    Joined: Mar 21, 2021
    Posts: 420

    Joe Travers
    Member
    from Louisiana

    But you have, Sir. Everyone visiting this thread sees your good work and it will pay off. I'm 700 miles away and may be sending you a PM in the near future.

    Joe
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2021
    Thor1 and loudbang like this.
  26. wrenchbender
    Joined: Sep 5, 2007
    Posts: 2,139

    wrenchbender
    Member

    Brian Kohlman aka racerx runs a Bruno converter and a 3speed Lenco in his nitro burning street fuel coupe it works very well I seen him run a 7 second 1/4 mile pass with that car on a mild tune up and he runs it on drag week
     
  27. oldiron 440
    Joined: Dec 12, 2018
    Posts: 2,401

    oldiron 440
    Member

    Tom Bailey is building a nitro burning Nomad with the Lenco/ converter setup, the pump is bolted to the front of the transmission. He does the dragweek events also.
     
    Thor1, loudbang and 427 sleeper like this.
  28. Weedburner
    Joined: Nov 16, 2010
    Posts: 211

    Weedburner
    Member
    from Wa State

    Pretty common to remove the oem restriction. Sometimes it's just a fitting on a hose with an undersized bore, some go as far as to use a "clutch delay valve" (CDV) that is basically a one-way check valve with a small hole thru the center. There are aftermarket versions of a CDV that have adjustable orifices, but those are mostly used where shifts don't come in quick succession. When you use them for drag racing, they have to be combined with a bypass circuit so that the restriction is only active during launch to eliminate the "pump-up" problem. The next problem that pops up is that even launch only simple restriction still forces you to compromise needed clutch slip during launch against reaction time. Entire engagement travel is slowed, including the deadband travel before the clutch begins to engage, that slowed deadband travel is what slows reaction time.

    My ClutchTamer and Hitmaster products do not slow clutch pedal deadband travel, as they both have an adjustable "hit point" in pedal travel where they become effective.
    As for the pump-up problem-
    ...ClutchTamer eliminates pump-up by acting on the pedal itself, which eliminates excess fluid getting pulled around the clutch master's cup style seal by the clutch master's internal return spring.
    ...Hitmaster eliminates the pump-up problem by using a timer to open a bypass circuit, which opens up the window for excess fluid return before the next pedal stroke.

    Grant
     
    ottoman and loudbang like this.
  29. Weedburner
    Joined: Nov 16, 2010
    Posts: 211

    Weedburner
    Member
    from Wa State

    True clutchless transmissions like the Liberty and Lenco still need something to slip after the shifts. Without slip after the shifts, the massive amounts of inertia energy released due to the sudden ratio change either breaks parts or gets wasted in a huge blip of wheelspeed. Might help to think of it like jerking the table cloth out from under a glass of wine. If your purpose of pulling on that cloth is to get that glass of wine moving as quick as possible, most of the energy put into a sudden jerk of the cloth will go to moving the cloth instead of moving the glass. Engine only gets a few seconds to produce all the energy it takes to make a pass, need to harness as much of it as you can.

    Grant
     
    KiWinUS and Thor1 like this.
  30. southcross2631
    Joined: Jan 20, 2013
    Posts: 4,414

    southcross2631
    Member

    Clutch tamer you need to start your own thread and let this one die.
     

Share This Page

Register now to get rid of these ads!

Archive

Copyright © 1995-2021 The Jalopy Journal: Steal our stuff, we'll kick your teeth in. Terms of Service. Privacy Policy.

Atomic Industry
Forum software by XenForo™ ©2010-2014 XenForo Ltd.