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Projects Southeast Gassers 65 Comet Super Stock Wagon

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by southcross2631, Oct 28, 2020.

  1. saltflats
    Joined: Aug 14, 2007
    Posts: 11,037

    saltflats
    Member
    from Missouri

    The work was in the rocker shaft stand spacing.
     
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  2. saltflats
    Joined: Aug 14, 2007
    Posts: 11,037

    saltflats
    Member
    from Missouri

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  3. 6sally6
    Joined: Feb 16, 2014
    Posts: 1,784

    6sally6
    Member

    Is the price better?? OR just a better flowing head? It uses a shaft mounted rocker? (just like the FE?!)
    Seems to me...........since they are after market cast heads the maker would just cast up better flowing FE heads!?!
    MAYBE.......its a..."fits several type engines" sales thing?!
    Interesting!
    6sally6
     
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  4. oldiron 440
    Joined: Dec 12, 2018
    Posts: 2,522

    oldiron 440
    Member

    How could you be so confused?
     
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  5. southcross2631
    Joined: Jan 20, 2013
    Posts: 4,414

    southcross2631
    Member

    I went to the BBM website and the make nice stuff. Lykins motorsports still says the trick flow heads are what he uses and 95 percent of his engine builds are FE motors.
    The FE is a pipe dream for me unless I just step back and start saving and not racing. I will be better off with a big bore 347 seeing as how I have the heads and a lot of extra parts for the Windsor.
     
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  6. Mike, I like FE engines, they are very cool, but with all of the development on the Windsor platform in the last 20 years, I don’t see how the FE could make more power. The only advantage I could see would be more displacement. I agree with your decision to stay with the small block. You are just getting the kinks worked out and then you can start really tuning on your engine. The top guys didn’t wake up and become as fast as they are now. It took time and tons of effort. I salute you and all of your efforts.
     
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  7. southcross2631
    Joined: Jan 20, 2013
    Posts: 4,414

    southcross2631
    Member

    Thanks Andy. I just need to keep looking for performance if it means another cam change or a gear change somewhere in this car is more performance than it is showing. I will find it. This is really a simple setup and it is just testing me to get the best out of it.
     
  8. oldiron 440
    Joined: Dec 12, 2018
    Posts: 2,522

    oldiron 440
    Member

    How much work have you done with the heads and which ones are they?
     
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  9. Joe H
    Joined: Feb 10, 2008
    Posts: 1,112

    Joe H
    Member

    Andy is 100% on the mark, you don't start out the fastest guy on the block ! Dad and I both had over 1500 passes on our cars before we quit after 15 years of racing, it takes time to learn how to go fast on a budget.

    I also like that you are working out the sixty foot before adding power, if it doesn't hook now, more power sure isn't going to help. My '67 Lemans was front heavy, it would launch hard but couldn't hold the front end up to keep weight on the tires, it too would start to hop around. I finally figured out it need really soft rear spring to keep it planted to the track.

    Joe
     
  10. lippy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2006
    Posts: 5,800

    lippy
    Member
    from Ks

    Maybe it would be money well spent to Dyno this engine? Lippy
     
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  11. Joe Travers
    Joined: Mar 21, 2021
    Posts: 485

    Joe Travers
    Member
    from Louisiana

    Have you ever checked out David Vizard? He makes some pretty wild claims about SMF head porting and horsepower gains, even from cast heads. I've never seen anyone else makes these claims and I've seen a ton of dyno tests on different combinations. Interesting character but he may just be trying to sell books (that might actually be worth checking out?) IDK.

    Joe
     
  12. saltflats
    Joined: Aug 14, 2007
    Posts: 11,037

    saltflats
    Member
    from Missouri

    I used the David Vizard book on the 2 liter pinto engine and we won track champion 2 years straight.
     
  13. southcross2631
    Joined: Jan 20, 2013
    Posts: 4,414

    southcross2631
    Member

    The heads are CNC ported Pro Maxx 210 heads with .100 long valves and PAC 1225 heads. They have had a .005 clean up cut on the deck to make sure they were flat.
    The rotating assembly is a Scat 3.25 crank with 5.4 Scat rods. 12.5 to 1 Icon forged pistons set at zero deck hand filed Grant rings all balanced by a local machine shop.
    The new cam is a Comp 35-772-8 .614-.621 lift. dur@ .050 248-.254 .106 C/L lobe separation 110.
    Intake is a fully ported Edelbrock RPM performer with a AED 750 carb that flows 820 cfm.
    Jegs brand dist that has all of it's advance in by 2500 and total has been between 32 and 36 without much difference in perfomance. MSD 6 al box.
    1 5/8 long tube headers with 16 inch collector extensions.
    2.75 1st gear top loader with a 6.00 gear. Car weighs 3270 with me in the car. Now all of you experts tell me why the car is no faster than an 8.20 at 86 mph with me leaving the line at between 4500 rpm's all the way to 6,000 rpm's not a noticeable difference in performance . Shifting at between 6500 and 7200. Crossing the stripe at around 7,000.
     
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  14. Joe H
    Joined: Feb 10, 2008
    Posts: 1,112

    Joe H
    Member

    We need someone with a engine analyzer program to find out where the torque curve is, a dyno would best, but the new analyzers are pretty darn good. HP calculators show about 300 hp for the weight and speed. It makes more power if calculated by speed then it does ET, but 300 hp is in the ballpark. Do you have airflow numbers for the heads? What is the cubic inch? I will see if my dad's pro analyzer is still working.
     
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  15. greybeard360
    Joined: Feb 28, 2008
    Posts: 1,833

    greybeard360
    Member

    I think your rear suspension needs a lot of work for sure. My opinion is the pinion snubber doesn't work well with the springs you have... They are too long in the front segment and are probably distorting too much. My OT AMC Spirit used slapper bars . it would 60 ft in the 1.30's and run low to mid 7's with a 360 AMC motor. All that hopping around is what is killing you.

    8.20? Not good for what your motor should be producing. I know you are limited on tires but it should be pulling better than that.
     
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  16. blowby
    Joined: Dec 27, 2012
    Posts: 8,029

    blowby
    Member
    from Nicasio Ca

    Would a chassis dyno run be of any value, maybe in separating engine vs. launch issues? Easier and cheaper than an engine dyno I assume.

    I am not an expert..
     
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  17. saltflats
    Joined: Aug 14, 2007
    Posts: 11,037

    saltflats
    Member
    from Missouri

    "Any combination that dominates by more than .15 seconds for more than one race will receive a Performance Equalizer Plate. The performance Equalizer Plates will be distributed to racers before qualifying begins and will be returned to the SEGA S/S officials at the end of each event. The Performance Equalizer Plate will be used to equalize the field until we can have good competition between all weight per cubic inch combinations. The Performance Equalizer Plate may go away in the future. "
    Is this in use or are the top cars not that far apart?
     
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  18. oldiron 440
    Joined: Dec 12, 2018
    Posts: 2,522

    oldiron 440
    Member

    Your cam specs are in the ballpark of the cam in my 292/289 but I use less lift. The power is in the heads, RHS 200cc with a small amount of bowl work. 445 tq 455hp
    I'm not a fan of the Chinese heads it seams you can buy them cheap but spend a fortune trying to make them work...
    I would expect you combination to be at peak power around 6000 rpm with peak torque at 4300. I'd run it from 4500 to 6500 rpm there's no need to turn it higher. I suspect that you running it after the power curve. Try running it from 4500 to 6500 and see if it doesn't pick up mph.
    I'm basing the rpm going by what my small bock produces.
    Also if you look on Engine Masters videos they did a comparision of header sizes. The 1 5/8" headers can cost you 20+ hp over 1 3/4"
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2021
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  19. lippy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2006
    Posts: 5,800

    lippy
    Member
    from Ks

    The reason I mentioned an engine dyno, when we first started running our 408, we took it to Mark Brown at Advanced engine in Salina. We had problems getting it to run out the back, 60 ft was good just no beans at the other end. Now granted this was a FED and quarter mile. You mentioned timing, well funny story here. It had an 850 carb on it. No tricks to speak of there. We started the pulls with around the 32 you mention in your engine. We all agreed lets see how it does with more. It kept losing hp the higher we went. Mark said, lets get goofy and try something. We set the timing at 31 and grabbed some power. At 29 degrees we grabbed 67 hp!! Did some jetting and valve adjustment and ended up grabbing another 10 hp. 500 bucks for 77 hp. :).
    My point is a Dyno will show you things about the engine in a few pulls with a good operator, that it could take you a lot of flogging and money and time to find out. JMO. :)
     
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  20. RmK57
    Joined: Dec 31, 2008
    Posts: 1,988

    RmK57
    Member

    By the looks of the first 60 feet I'd say there is at least 1/2-3/4 second to be gained there. The rear springs seem to be wrapping up pretty bad. Different shocks may help some? Maybe even try the Crites bars with the extra 100 lbs. of rear ballast, you never know, it may help.

    Your car at the 40 second mark.....

     
  21. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 7,491

    Budget36
    Member

    I’m curious about the 100lb penalty thing, do they designate where you have to add it to? Or can you put it where you want it?
     
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  22. Joe Travers
    Joined: Mar 21, 2021
    Posts: 485

    Joe Travers
    Member
    from Louisiana

    I'm not an expert, but this ^^^^^^^^^^^ Why? The 2020 Champ runs 'em.

    Joe
     
  23. oldiron 440
    Joined: Dec 12, 2018
    Posts: 2,522

    oldiron 440
    Member

    I watched the video on my 55" TV and noticed that the car starts hopping when the front suspension tops out, front shock can help there. It looks like the rear axle is driving the car left, make sure the axle is square under the car and the housing is not bent, tires have the same role out etc.
    I came up with 321 hp at the wheels witch would be 400 hp at the crank.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2021
  24. oldiron 440
    Joined: Dec 12, 2018
    Posts: 2,522

    oldiron 440
    Member

    I can't see running a monoleaf suspension without a traction bar of some sort, that hopping will brake parts. Reminds me of the Chevyll/Nova monoleaf.
     
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  25. CycleTech
    Joined: Oct 24, 2020
    Posts: 41

    CycleTech
    Member

    Every video I seen of this car it always trys to drive around itself on burnout. This latest video the car almost leaves the track surface. I am not a drag racer but watching other burnouts they dont do it at all or slightly. Being a racer(motorcycle) I did notice the car is way out of balance from the time it leaves the line till it , I presume , reaches high gear of the run. It is almost rocking side to side. I am with oldiron. Smooth out the chassis. It has more power than it can handle right now.
     
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  26. greybeard360
    Joined: Feb 28, 2008
    Posts: 1,833

    greybeard360
    Member

    Monoleafs do work well with cal track bars. I built a NSS 64 Dodge using that setup. Car ran 9.50 @ 140 1/4 mile... 6.00 1/8. It launched with about 6 inches of air under the fronts every pass. No hopping around. No diving to one side or the other. Just nice clean passes.

    Another thing that happens with the pinion snubber setup. It will top out the rear shocks and cause the hopping like you have. Longer shocks help but then you run the risk of the pinion angle climbing so high you will break u-joints.

    Another thought..... If you are crossing the line at 86 mph at 7200 you either have way too much gear or you are spinning all the way thru the traps. My car would go thru the lights at 7200 in the 1/4 at 120 mph with 4.10 gears and 26 inch tall tires.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2021
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  27. 1934coupe
    Joined: Feb 22, 2007
    Posts: 4,680

    1934coupe
    Member

    I'm careful about commenting on this post because I see that suggestions are being made about bigger heads, more HP, different block, tunnel ram. You get the picture. As oldiron 440 said and I noticed also FWIW, the car is not coming out straight and it is because of a rear suspension problem like old iron suggested. I know similar leaf spring cars that 60' in the 1.40's small block V8 single carb, roller, 12:1 compression. The problem is not in the engine compartment but in the rear of the car.

    Pat
     
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  28. oldiron 440
    Joined: Dec 12, 2018
    Posts: 2,522

    oldiron 440
    Member

    Yeah I agree I have Caltracks and monoleafs for my Fairlane.

    I agree get rid of the pinion snubber.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2021
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  29. Hey Mike, hope you and momma are doin good. Gonna put my opinion in since you left the door open. Don't guess on your power curve, put that baby on the chassis dyno with one of them smart guys at the end of the wrench, then you will know where you are. Then, like 34 coupe said, spend the money on the suspension setup. I painted an off topic drag car for a local guy, about your age, had more money than Tennessee has firework stands, he had the biggest, baddest mill in that thing that money could buy. Wouldn't run down the track. He loaded it up and took it somewhere in Chicago, said it was in an alley, some chassis guru. Told me they unloaded the car, jacked it up, and climbed under it for less than an hour, then did a hit right there in the alley. He said that it was crazy how much harder that car came out of the hole. Came back and ran 6.10's. 14 hour round trip, less than an hour of work. Surely there is somebody like that around your area?
     
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  30. Flywheel weight?
    Search for the old Ford “Cobra” dual plane intake. If it’s legal. Way better than a performer.
     

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