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Soooo, CALI DMV tells me I need a BOND ?? Please explain

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Chopperman, Jul 17, 2008.

  1. Chopperman
    Joined: Sep 26, 2006
    Posts: 1,250


    I thought I was in the clear when I was presented with TAGS and plates on my A- Coupe, then after I paid 450.00 ( now into it for 750.00 ) I got a letter from DMV requesting the following. Keep in mind I already had the vehicle inspected and verified by a VIN officer, so I'm good there.

    1. Bill of sale from seller to buyer (had one but it was on a paper that also had the word " invoice" on it and DMV didn't like that). This one I'm not worried about because I know the guy I bought the body from and can get another BOS on the DMV form.

    2. Statement of facts from a classic car and restoration "dealer" appraising it's current value ( so they can tax me again ). Again, not worried about this one either. I have a buddy who owns a So Cal Speed shop that might be able to assist. ( not sure if he would qualify as a "DEALER" though.

    3. California vehicle bond. This one has me totally confused and I need some help. Did a google and was even more confused. My google search left me with this conclusion. Pay another insurance company a few hundred bones and presto your bonded. Problem is that I really don't understand the "BOND", why it's being asked for and the potential issues if something goes wrong

    Anyone that has went through the bond piece please enlighten me.


  2. Revhead
    Joined: Mar 19, 2001
    Posts: 3,027

    from Dallas, TX

    we have to do a similar thing in texas if you don't have a title.

    The appraisal here has HAS to be done by a true dealer, with a dealer's license.

    The bond is not all that bad, it is basically an insurance policy in case someone comes to claim the car and has the real title for it. It is based on the value of the car and is quoted per year. We have to get it for 3 years here.

    What happens is that if someone comes around with proof of ownership of the car you have and wants it back you have insurance. If the car is gone lost or destroyed, the real owner gets the claim money from the insurance. The state requires it cause they don't want to get sued for transfering a title they shouldn't have.

    At least that's what I was told...
  3. blackout
    Joined: Jul 29, 2007
    Posts: 1,269


    Did you have a title?
  4. in washington a bonded title is issued when ownership is in question by the state. it is for 3 years and when nobody claims it was thiers and can prove ownership its yours! the thing is in the meantime you can still get licence and still sell the vehicle. if it's sold the new owner is taking a chance and still has to wait out the remaining time left until 3 years is up. i have had numerous bonded titles and none were ever claimed. i have one now that is about ready to be issued a regular title.

  5. Chopperman
    Joined: Sep 26, 2006
    Posts: 1,250


    Filed for lost title.

    The number I used cleared and at that point I was granted plates and tags.
  6. Chopperman
    Joined: Sep 26, 2006
    Posts: 1,250


    Well that pretty much clears it up.

    I think I'm in the clear since my numbers already cleared DMV records. Well, what DMV actually told me when they issued me tags and plates was " we have no record of this VIN in our system" and was issued plates and tags. so I think I will be OK getting the bond.

    So lets add this up now

    Current DMV bills 750.00
    BOND 200.00 ?
    new tax on current value 800.00 ?
    Possibly more I'm sure

    Building your own frame or starting with a body only SUCKS...

    I'm going to head to DMV tomorrow just to make sure there isn't something wrong with my #
  7. HHRdave
    Joined: Jul 31, 2006
    Posts: 1,068

    from So Cal

    Next time use AAA ( get a membership) and you'll have less headache. I have never spent over $100 getting an old car registered through auto club and I have done several over the years with lost titles, etc. etc.

    I have never been asked for a bond. But I have heard of California requesting one if the vehicle ever had a lien holder on it, they do this, incase money is still owed from the previous unknown owner.

    I just can't understand why you have paid so much money in fees for an A Coupe, seriously, I just did 2 of them last year and never paid over $100......

    Bill of Sale - Type one up and make suere it says "BILL OF SALE" at the top of the paper ... OR go the the CAL DMV website and print out their free bill of sale form.

    Statement of facts - all you need to do here is explain that every effort was made by you and the buyer to find the original lost title and nothing could be found. And then state the amount you paid for the vehicle. You don't need to get an appraiser involved, all you have to do is state the amount you paid for the vehicle. Hopefully you haven't "built" the car first and then tried to register it......because then the DMV will want the "current built value" appraised to calculate your for taxes.

    When you use AAA, they hand you a stack of papers ahead of time and tell you how to fill them out. Always use the same pen and ink for everything and print legible. Then you send the whole stack of papers in at once through AAA and within 60 days you have plates and a title.... something to think about for next time.....
  8. Never heard of it.

    What is the vehicle code section they are getting this from?

    I've titled and registered many many cars with nothing at all (you are better off that way) and never paid more than 150 bucks.
    Usually alot less.

    All legal and correct.

    Usually when I hand them a hand written bill of sale, they just pitch it. They dont turn it in with the package, and do not request another, either.
    If it is off the computer, I dont bring anything but a VIN verification and application for a title. An old title or papers just gets them all froggy and they start needing registered letters, and receipts, etc.

    I dont really understand if they gave you plates and cleared the numbers why they are coming back at you with this.

    Unless they think they busted the Boyd again..
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2008
  9. Chopperman
    Joined: Sep 26, 2006
    Posts: 1,250


    Good advice.

    If you didn't have a frame or original title was AAA able to help you out and how did you come up with #'s?

    My problem is I spent 300.00 and got headed down the "special construction path" on round 1 ( different vin # )

    Round 2 set me back 450.00 in fees and sales tax, but I was OK with it since I was handle plates and tags on the spot.

    Round three I could either continue down round 2 or start from scratch and buy a title / BOS and then roll those bones.

    I'm going to dook it out in round 2
  10. Chopperman
    Joined: Sep 26, 2006
    Posts: 1,250


    How did you come up with a vin #.

    My problem is I don't have anything. Including an original vin # ( so I need to tread very lightly )
  11. Do you have an old A banger block sitting around? Or someone you know?
    That is what I have titled all my model A's with in Ca.

    Just run the #, not on record, good to go.

    A good vin guy knows that is enough. A DMV employee does not. They trip out that there are not enough numbers in the vin. that is why I always bring a book to teach them.

    Even then, they get pissy and sometimes won't do it. AAA is a bit more lenient.
  12. Chopperman
    Joined: Sep 26, 2006
    Posts: 1,250


    Both you guys are right.

    Round one was my screw up by going the wrong route with NO VIN and it cost me 300.00 just to get the ball rolling under special construction.

    Round two was a vin # cleared by DMV, lost title paperwork, vin verification form ( signed ), and BOS for 3K. OTD was 450.00 for back tags, reg, tax, etc.etc.

    A few weeks later I received this letter. My guess is that I had a newbie on the counter and her supervisor got ahold of the package and decided to really stick it to me.

    So from here I can continue with my current cleared vin # or dig up a new one and start over like you guys are saying ( just like I did in round 2 )

    I'm heading down there tomorrow to see If I can talk my way out of it, since I already have tags and plates.
  13. HHRdave
    Joined: Jul 31, 2006
    Posts: 1,068

    from So Cal

    Um.... A Bill of Sale determines what you paid and what you owe in taxes at registration. And they do turn that in as proof with signatures of what you paid for the vehicle. A Statement of facts also declares what you paid and determines what you owe in taxes.

    How else do they determine the vehicle value or what you paid for it???
  14. Satinblack
    Joined: Jan 1, 2004
    Posts: 970


    Would seem to me if you went in with a number, cleared of course and did a statement of facts, saying the vehicle has been yours in family forever and a vin verification, that would do it too.......

    I mean whats a bill of sale? basically just a recept. I can have anyone write me a bill of sale
  15. If its off record, you bought it from Fred Sanford for $500 in 1989.. That goes on the back of the application for duplicate title. No bill of sale is necessary.
    In the statements of facts section, you simply state that you had paperwork in your name and lost it, or you cannot contact Mr Sanford anymore.
    Of course this does not work if you are 18 :rolleyes:.

    All the DMV is worried about is people buying cars 10 years old or newer and saying they were $200.
    Special construction falls into that category as well. They think it should be like a Boyd car, many many thousands.

    i guess you have to bend the truth a little if you have alot of money in the car, but most of mine start out at free to $500, so I dont have to lie. much.
  16. Retrorod
    Joined: Jan 25, 2006
    Posts: 2,027


    You are lucky it isn't a truck. We did the lien sale route on Flower's Model A chassis, went to AAA got everything handled with no fuss until they said...."oh, it's a truck, you are going to need a weight slip". to the local land fill we went with a bare rolling model A chassis on my trailer, when we arrived I explained what was required to the guy at the scales. It turns out that this guy is the owner of a pretty cool 1948 Chevy Fleetline lo-rider.....more than happy to produce a weight slip for me. With that we were awarded custody of a perfect title, some new plates and tags. Weight slip........right, that's important (for what????).
  17. Dam, you guys are getting towards being as complex and as expensive as over here!
  18. Gepetto
    Joined: Nov 29, 2007
    Posts: 121

    from Orange

    I don't know if you know this but the dmv is a bunch of nazis. There new thing is to charge past registration fees for vehicles out of the system. Just go to AAA and boycott the dmv office.
  19. belair
    Joined: Jul 10, 2006
    Posts: 8,635


    SOCIALISM RULES!!!!!!!!! (If you let it.) DMVs are where all the little parts of Hitler are reincarnated.
  20. Revhead
    Joined: Mar 19, 2001
    Posts: 3,027

    from Dallas, TX

    haha you don't even what to know how they do this in texas... it is robbery. if you don't get it appraised to prove it's value they use NADA value, the middle condition.. no matter what!!! it can be a rusty pile of crap and they will say you ahve to pay takes on 14k!, not to mention the NADA values are rediculous.
  21. I can't believe I'm doing this, but I'm going to stick up for the CA DMV.

    I've done several transactions like this (frame swaps, out of state, no title, etc.) and never had trouble. I have always prepared ahead of time via the website and tried to get my paperwork in order.

    I do think it's a bit of a chance with the person at the desk, but I guess I've been lucky. Besides the AAA, there are services that specialize this and advertise in car mags and such, but I've never used them.

    I will soon be doing a "specially constructed vehicle" thing, as I'm on the list for the new '34 steel coupe body and I plan on putting it on a new P&J frame (with a flathead motor).

    After the Boyd scandal, they passed this thing called "special certificates" that they issue 500 of these a year and if you have one, you get the choice to assign the year on the title as the "car the vehicle most resembles". This SEMA-drafted rule makes so much common sense, but the government "compromise" was to only issue 500 a year. According to the web site, this year's limit of 500 was reached on January 2. :-( You can do this with a new construction or an existing car. You still get a newly assigned VIN.

    I'm too much of a boy scout to weld in a VIN plate or buy an alabama title or any of the other ways that the DMV has started to become aware of. Worst case in my situation is I will get a current-year title but be smog exempt based on my engine. But of course a 1934 designation is much more desired (and probably valuable at resale time, although that's not a big concern for me since I don't sell cars often and never make money on them... :)

  22. Lucky Burton
    Joined: Dec 31, 2004
    Posts: 1,574

    Lucky Burton

    Dmv records only go back so many 7 years... There isn't a chance any old car pre 70's is in the system. Unless it has been registered within that time....Go to AAA.... You will never go back to the dmv to register again.... The longest I have ever waited was 15 minutes with no appointment....Try that at the dmv.....Lucky
  23. brewsir
    Joined: Mar 4, 2001
    Posts: 3,278


    how the hell can they assess back registration fees if the car is no longer in the system....sounds to me like they saw you coming. I have never had any of these problems...maybe thats just because I didn't try the special construction route.....that got you in a pile.
  24. Todd Bugs
    Joined: Dec 24, 2001
    Posts: 29

    Todd Bugs

    I had a bunch of issues on a lost title for a chopper frame I bought, had to go to the DMV and CHP several times and pay quite a bit as well but got everything squared away. The next time I had a project issue I was told about Murphy's registration services (661.729.4990) out of lancaster (so Cal) they were great, came to my house and took all the paper work, returned the next day with everything done and legit. Hellbound hotrods uses them often I'm told without any problems.
  25. In Sunny California, it helps a lot to go to a small town DMV.
    One close to where you live if you can.

    And if that small town DMV does a lot of registrations with aliens, legal and otherwise, they usually have a good handle on dealing with cars with and without paperwork.

    Or . . . at the risk of being a smartass . . . move to Arizona.

    The MVD here has a bunch of sharp people and will work with you on problems instead of tossing another fee from God knows where at you.

    Be careful that the California DMV doesn't toss a "Smog Impact Fee" at you.
    They tried with me on my new construction 32 and I questioned it.
    The super was dragged in, she didn't know so they contacted Sacramento and was told the smog impact fee was for out of state cars only.

    California DMV is bad about tacking on a fee just in case it might be required.
    I have yet to hear of anyone getting their money back when the DMV screwed up.

    But if you owe them....
  26. The reason for the weight certificate on a truck is commercial registrations, which all trucks get, are based on weight, the heavier it is the more they charge. The thinking is heavier trucks are harder on the roads therefore they should pay more taxes to maintain the roads.
    As for the bond, it seems to be at the discretion of the person doing the paperwork if they think there could be an issue.
  27. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 28,398


    As the car doesn't have the stuff they expect on an expensive custom built "streetrod"
    take a couple of current but not artsy photos along with you when you take your paperwork in. If the camera puts the date on the photo so much the better.
    Although as far as your are concerned it might be finished you want the dmv to see it as a just running and driving unfinished car that doesn't have a lot of money tied up in it. No chrome or polished aluminum on the engine, no bling wheels, no mega dollar paint and body work and no high dollar leather interior. Let them view it as an unfinished car that you want to drive and sort out before you finish it.
    If you can back up what you are trying to say with receipts for the major pieces including the steel you used to build the chassis so much the better.
  28. hodaphile
    Joined: Dec 5, 2007
    Posts: 29

    Alliance Vendor

    Did you already show proof of insurance? Could the bond be for that?
  29. Vergil
    Joined: Dec 10, 2005
    Posts: 785


  30. Well the state board wants their tax money and will look where ever they can to get it. I always take the worst picks of a pile of parts so when they come a callin I just show them the pics and they back off. Had them do it twice to me in the last few years. oh yeh it is only gettin worse ya ought to see some of the new rules!

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