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History So, you think this is not Traditional?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by BrerHair, Jan 6, 2016.

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  1. I don't doubt that you have been told that your T doesn't fit in. hat is not to say that it is not a hot rod, and from where I am sitting it is a nice car, looks well thought out.

    You basically said it yourself, it was built in '72 and it is your basic '70s fad T with a little more finesse that the average back yard built Fad T. But being a '70s style build it doesn't fit the focus of the board. Our cut off date build wise is '65, what you have done to your car was not being done in '65 or at least not commonly being done in '65 or prior. So as far as the board is concerned it does not fit, that is not to say that it is not a hot rod just that it is not a traditional hot rod by definition.
     
  2. fadt
    Joined: Oct 3, 2010
    Posts: 128

    fadt
    Member
    from England

    Thanks.
    A polite and well put answer. Must stop posting pics. I wonder how long it will be before 70s stuff is acceptable as well.

    Thanks
    gerry
     
  3. wingman9
    Joined: Dec 30, 2009
    Posts: 804

    wingman9
    Member
    from left coast

    Beaner, I think you and I went to different schools together. :)

    I grew up in Colorado in the late 50s, early 60s and it was the same deal there. Reminds me of the guys that now have flamethrowers on their cars. Maybe that concept is just too sophisticated for me.
     
  4. 2OLD2FAST
    Joined: Feb 3, 2010
    Posts: 5,215

    2OLD2FAST
    Member
    from illinois

    I'm not faulting your statement , but that was kinda harsh ...
    dave
     
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  5. Deuced Up!
    Joined: Feb 8, 2008
    Posts: 4,206

    Deuced Up!
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Right on time....just a few minutes after I posted that comment I got an email from the NSRA for early registration to their next Malibu Wagon Nationals! LOL
     
  6. Chaz
    Joined: Feb 24, 2004
    Posts: 5,016

    Chaz
    Member Emeritus

    Here's some period correctness for ya.... I didn't know a single hot rodder in the late 50's who wanted to keep their flattie once the Small block Chevy made it's debut.
    Those guys would have sold their mother into slavery for a 327....
    Today the SBC's are looked upon as bellybuttons.
     
  7. 2OLD2FAST
    Joined: Feb 3, 2010
    Posts: 5,215

    2OLD2FAST
    Member
    from illinois

    Yep , late 50's-early 60'sthe hotrodders were shoe-horning any & all OHV V8's in their cars cause they were faster !! Hopping up a flathead was akin to putting lipstick on a pig !!
    dave
     
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  8. I know a couple of guys who stuck to their flat head guns - but they were just stubborn, and lost. They weren't the norm, that's for sure.
    I do know one guy who pulled out a big inch flatty from his '32 roadster and put in a 331 Chrysler - Only guy in the world who swapped a flat motor for a HEMI and went ----------------------------------------- SLOWER! We still kid him about that 50 years later.
    As my buddy said at the street races one night, when his hot flat head got blown off by a new 55 Chevy 265 - "Well, that's it, Hot Rodding has just changed for ever"
     
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  9. Blues4U
    Joined: Oct 1, 2015
    Posts: 7,589

    Blues4U
    Member
    from So Cal

    Thanks for the insights guys, for those of us who weren't there. Great stuff!
     
  10. AndersF
    Joined: Feb 16, 2013
    Posts: 884

    AndersF
    Member

    I know that i am not the one that give the polite anwer and feel a bit sorry for that
    becouse i do think your T really is cool.
    My guess for the 65 cut off is that the all forum would collapse without it.
    If muscelcars, VW:s, Mustangs, lowriders, later style customs/hotrods and vans
    where allowed the older style builds would dissipears in the flood of threads here.
    Good threads dissipears fast as is if you not are here for a day or two.
     
  11. BrerHair
    Joined: Jan 30, 2007
    Posts: 5,005

    BrerHair
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Never, not on this board. Gerry, I love your hotrod, no true HAMBer will say that it is not a genuine hotrod (it is). But your post questioning whether your hotrod is OT or not really crystallizes this discussion. Here you have a perfectly good, decently badass hotrod. How, you ask, can it possibly NOT be HAMB friendly? The answer is simply that your hotrod does not fit within the arbitrary lines drawn up by Ryan. Nothing more, nothing less. Damn, you say, I sure wish the upper limit was 1975. But again, the upper limit has to be drawn, that is the nature of defining something.

    'beaner nailed it (this ain't his first rodeo):
     
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  12. BrerHair
    Joined: Jan 30, 2007
    Posts: 5,005

    BrerHair
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Well I, for one, am about fed up with any lingering doubt as to whether the SBC is traditional or not. For my money, we settled that question a long time ago. To me, anyone who bashes a pre-'65 (OK 'beaner, maybe a pre-'66;)) SBC is simply saying "I was not around in the late '50s or early '60s." One thing we should all be able to agree on is that the post war rodders were all about going fast, it was a Go Fast ethic. Of that, there is no doubt. Not too difficult to connect those dots.
     
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  13. BrerHair
    Joined: Jan 30, 2007
    Posts: 5,005

    BrerHair
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    And lest anyone think that the hot rod scene was not a happening place in 1975, I give you newer members HEMI32's great thread about Andy Brizio's 1975 picnic:
    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...-picnic-august-1975-pics.566964/#post-6301685
    Be sure to check out Todd's links to other threads he posted about other Andy's Picnics (contained in the above thread).
    A sampling from that thread:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Not really OT for this thread because it goes to show that, like a parallel universe, the hot rod scene did not stop in 1965, it continued to thrive and evolve. That is what gives a lot of folks on this board fits. The scene and the cars were still cool, what is the problem? Look at it this way:
    Picture the entire hot rod scene, from birth right up to the present day, laid out in linear fashion, like a very long timeline, with important markers along the way. What Ryan has done is to take a picture of the timeline, with a lens that only captures 1925 to 1965. He takes that picture (he is an accomplished photographer) and says "That's it! That is what I am going to build my website, my passion, my livelihood around. Y'all are welcome to join in if you would like." OK, I am not sure about 1925, but the beginning has never been a subject for debate. It is the end date that has always been the sticky point. Hence this thread, to remind us all that not only is 1965 etched in stone, but there may have been a lot more done to hotrods in the late '50s and early '60s than a lot of y'all are aware of (and not just by chicken eaters.)
     
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  14. DDDenny
    Joined: Feb 6, 2015
    Posts: 19,132

    DDDenny
    Member
    from oregon

    Chaz
    You left out drawer pull grills.

    [​IMG]
     
  15. I think that the part that amuses/puzzles/irritates (depending on your temperament) the 'traditionally styled' crowd is the apparent disconnect between what the 'pure' traditionalists say should be 'it' and what really happens more often than not. Now, I 'get' the year cutoff; any later and you start seeing musclecars, etc and this isn't what this board is about or why I'm here. Personally, for the vehicles I think it should be a year or two older, before the factories went crazy in the horsepower wars. While I love the full-size big motor cars as much as the next guy, they're not really hot rods, any more than a big-block Chevelle or a 428 Mustang is. Where the problem seems to ensue is the hard cutoff on parts. Now I'm not advocating that the door be thrown open to just anything; M2/Jag/Corvette suspension will never be 'trad', or coil-on-plug EFI motors. But when you see 'traditional' cars with T5 transmissions (or some other late-model derivative), cut-down S10 seats or re-engineered 'reproduction' parts, one can get the idea that somebody is talking out of both sides of their mouth. Or alternators; these were standard equipment on everything the big three sold by '65 and I have zero doubt that some made their way onto rods before '66 arrived but because they weren't common, they're 'non-trad'. There's a lot of well known, very cool cars/builds on this site that would fail the 'traditional' test if it were applied 'rigidly'....

    It's kind of the same thing with 'period correct'. I don't think that yardstick should be applied unless the owner says that's what he was trying to achieve. A lot of cars were updated piecemeal, like the mentioned switch from flatheads to overheads, and if a guy wants mags on his banger-powered A, that should be his right and shouldn't make it less a hot rod.

    Now, before I'm accused of being a heretic, I'm not advocating changing the site; Ryan knows what he's doing. But these discussions always bring out the impossibility of applying 'rules' to hot rodding or that being too literal-minded can lead you away from what it's all about.... there were no rules 'back in the day'.
     
  16. These are all Magoo classics and his stuff was like this because the aesthetic was based on the earlier classic late 1940's paradigm. And it's a good one. I think this is what is meant by maintaining the traditional vibe, if not an original-parts-only recreation. Works for me. (Sadly not everything in 1975 looked like these roadsters)

    [​IMG]

    This roadster was built local to me in the early 80's, originally with dirt track rears. Once again, built to an earlier style. It had/has a 283, 4 speed and QC.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2016
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  17. Stogy
    Joined: Feb 10, 2007
    Posts: 26,345

    Stogy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    All those things are already a large part of the scene and always have been since their being put on the market. The changing fads/trends no different than today.
    I wasn't old enough to experience the period so to speak. Through my exposure to this site, friends, media etc. I fully understand what it represents, respect it and it is not rocket science.
    As tacky, quirky, smarmy, cool, or awesome as anything that was created for the car culture if its 65 and back, original, vintage repro or inspired by the rules it can fly and many will buy into it.
    This separates our rides as we all like different things. It is what it is. Consumerism was huge then as it is now.
    I did also want to comment on outside the box.
    It is just a form of description of a modification to the vehicle that is not common but possible during the time period the site represents of course. Some of the things people did to their rides were incredible (some not) and very unique. One of a kind or it would potentially generate a "Look at that...never saw that done before" 15 rodders at the cruise had black wheels and one had swirls that looked like pinwheels. That person thought outside the box it could be described. Enjoying the conversation all.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2016
  18. Heck I just cracked myself up going back and re-reading all that :D Good to see some of the old guys that replied are actually still around.
     
  19. Chaz
    Joined: Feb 24, 2004
    Posts: 5,016

    Chaz
    Member Emeritus

    Oh, and don't forget those pigeon shit welds your buddy did with his new "buzz box" Those are period correct for sure.
     
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  20. Deuced Up!
    Joined: Feb 8, 2008
    Posts: 4,206

    Deuced Up!
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I love it when these threads pop up, it makes for very entertaining banter. If you ask my opinion (and of course no one did) I really think it is about INTENTION. I was not even a glimmer in my parents eyes when the hot rod craze kicked off so I am in no place to define their intentions (the hot rodders not my parents). But through magazines, movies and music I have experienced the feel. I long for that feel, that vibe. The definition of traditional depends upon where you stand or stood. For some it would be a strict Race of Gentlemen feel, for others the late 50s begin to creep in etc, etc. Ryan INTENDS to stand in 1965. I don't know why, I don't care. All I know is I dig that groove too, we all do. When it comes to what makes it here and what doesn't my opinion is when the INTENTION is pure for a traditional rod, small issues like is that a "period correct alternator" will probably be over looked in lieu of the whole picture. But over all even that choice is up to Ryan. For all the rest of the larger issues, stop trying to make the H.A.M.B. match your car, make your car match the H.A.M.B. or start your own forum. AND in conclusion, don't take that last sentence the wrong way because if you do start your own, hell I might join it as well. But when I do, I am sure you will expect me to follow your INTENTIONS.
     
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  21. HiHelix
    Joined: Dec 20, 2015
    Posts: 381

    HiHelix
    Member

    I have found that although Tradition is cool ... New twists are always welcome in my book...its how tradition starts... Even the administrators here seem to forget that... God Bless em.
    I have posted pictures of my project on this board to have them taken down with an off topic grounds..
    Just be careful here...it can be stuffy
     
  22. What we call "traditional" today, was a daily driver when we were kids.
     
  23. D-Ozzie
    Joined: Oct 28, 2015
    Posts: 63

    D-Ozzie
    Member

    Wow. Beautiful car. This really defies the "traditional" boundaries. There is no question it is "inspired" by the traditional style, but are those wide rear radials pre-'65? I *hope* we can agree this is HAMB friendly.

     
  24. Personally I would hop a flatty, and probably out run most if not all the undereducated.. Hell I'd hop up a mini bike if that was what I had to work with. I am sick and I know it, but most of what I play with is way less hazardous to your health than other more controlled substances, if you catch my drift.

    Actually hot rodding has always been about going fast, fast being a relative term here. The deal with the post war was that going fast changed and so did the people that were doing it. There was a lot more going on aside from the valve in head engine. We need to remember that the guys coming back from the war had a fever, and they had lot of new stuff to cure it.

    Aside from that our folks were breeding like rabbits, I know we don't like to admit that but where do you think the baby boom came from if it wasn't our folks. Just roll with me here. What they were producing was more then kids, they were rodders and they were breeding rodders, lots of them. And there was competition, lots of it. We that are boomers were born into a world that was mobile and fast, and we had to go fast to keep up. The valve in head was just part of a natural progression and it was a part that we were familiar with, we had to use it to keep up and keep up we did, or at least we tried to.

    We are just trying to remember our roots and there is room for flatties and bangers in there too. Or maybe I should say that there is room for small blocks and hemis in there too. I suppose it is a matter of your bent isn't it.

    Will traditional hot rodding die? probably. 50 years from now those old men will be chasing their own roots. Hopefully they will open up their archives and read some of what we have written down. I suppose that they will get a good laugh out of it. ;)
     
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  25. Deuced Up!
    Joined: Feb 8, 2008
    Posts: 4,206

    Deuced Up!
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Maybe they will be driving around in a chopped top mid 90s Honda Civic with no fenders or hood, on steel wheels and bitch at any civic with a USB port because that is simply not traditional. LOL
     
  26. BrerHair
    Joined: Jan 30, 2007
    Posts: 5,005

    BrerHair
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    By the way, AndersF's statement above is not the least bit harsh by HAMB standards. Matter of fact, he added that he thought it was a genuine hot rod, an obvious peace offering. FNG's have no idea how hard this following post would get slammed several years ago on this board:
    So here, allow me to set you straight, and I will follow the present-day PC HAMB etiquette, not the old-school ballistic style. How can you possibly know what the administrators forget and don't forget, when you joined the board a couple weeks ago? Please . . . lay low for awhile until you get your feet wet.
     
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  27. ....................I miss the old HAMB.:D
     
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  28. BrerHair
    Joined: Jan 30, 2007
    Posts: 5,005

    BrerHair
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Yes, that's the point I was trying to make, that there seems to be a mindset that this traditional world is powered by flatties and bangers, anything other than sbc's. Please let's all finally agree that sbc's are traditional. Period.
     
    Stogy likes this.
  29. If our world were powered strictly by flatties wouldn't that make a flatty a belly button motor? :D

    You'll never in a thousand years get me to accept an SBC. :rolleyes:

    [​IMG]
     
  30. Deuced Up!
    Joined: Feb 8, 2008
    Posts: 4,206

    Deuced Up!
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Now that is funny Beaner!
     
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