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Technical So....I'm learning a little about tires

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by trollst, May 1, 2020.

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  1. KenC
    Joined: Sep 14, 2006
    Posts: 472


    Yep, I've seen lots more defective radials that bias ply. Not so much recently but 10yrs ago it was common for the belts to be out of place.
  2. KenC
    Joined: Sep 14, 2006
    Posts: 472


    I was going to suggest deviating from the recommended toe settings to try to overcome that. If it hasn't already been done, it can be done at home with minimal equipment. As a matter of fact the test can be done with nothing but wrenches if you know the current toe is at spec. Just reset a 1/2 or full turn in or out and try it. If no help go the other way, back to original the 1/2 or full the other way. Free, fast, and might work.
    jaw22w likes this.
  3. So y’all seen the spinning wheel with enough Umph to Hold its own weight and defy gravity,,, notice The length of the axle from pivot point ( string or handle) ?
    That’s one force and it’s different than road force. Hummmm is that 2 forces now ???

    Get an empty 55 gallon drum and from the center roll it across the floor in a straight line.
    Now stand on the end of the drum and apply force to roll it straight across the floor.
    Now put 20 gallons in and do the same.
    You’re going to bust your balls rolling it from the end.
  4. 2OLD2FAST
    Joined: Feb 3, 2010
    Posts: 2,728

    from illinois

    Oh Look ,
    Mr science is here ! LOL
    Blue One likes this.
  5. Exactly. It's like a constant tug of war where each team (tires) pull against each other.
  6. I’ve been getting a hold of that smart brake fluid lately. Sorry 2old
    Last edited: May 6, 2020
    Jibs and trollst like this.
  7. Imagine two little guys in a tug of war.
    Not much is going to happen if one loose his grip.
    If there’s a team of big bruisers and one of them looses his grip then some action happens.
  8. ^^^^^ The key here is "spastic" tug of war. Perhaps think an aviation term "porpoising". Only thing is one can not trim the front end as it's in motion.
    31Vicky with a hemi likes this.
  9. clem
    Joined: Dec 20, 2006
    Posts: 2,992


    I’ve always wondered if an out of square chassis would cause problems as described.
    Any comments anyone ?
  10. How are your shocks?

    I developed a tire hop and replaced the Pete and Jakes shorty shocks with Ride Tech ones and it fixed the problem. ElPolacko recommended this.

    Good Luck
  11. ^^^^^ Holy Sh**! If that's what's needed I guess. But $180 each for Hot Rod style!?
    Joined: Jun 3, 2005
    Posts: 8,059


    After all this my mind is combining what Vic is saying with some chassis issues. One thing that our beloved old cars are made of is "ladders". The frames are what was then a hi-tech vision of old wagon engineering. Bodies were called coachwork for a reason. Then we add all manner of new n improved suspensions, not designed for ladders, tires, not designed for coaches, engines, usually too powerful for a coach plopped atop a ladder with wheels on it.

    All of that is just to drag us toward the basics in a much simpler way. The motion vid helps get our heads around some forces at work where such things were never asked of a ladder style frame in their days of creation. Add exponentially better roads and we feel shit within these things never felt by their best engineers. Combine the best of each engineered system to the whole and you'll get there. The one tell in all of this was added caster in a responder above. Dropped spindle, standard settings, forward weight bias, surely adding "weight" to the steering effort might seem a poor choice at 1st. It's no longer a Mustang, no longer a vintage pickup either, and now needs settings to manage the new forces. If I missed that you added caster already, sorry. That means I'm full of shit.
  13. trollst
    Joined: Jan 27, 2012
    Posts: 1,783


    No, I've not added caster yet, after the rotor change, that'll be the last thing I'll do. I spoke with my front end guy yesterday and we agreed that we'd try it. I gotta see him anyway, gonna install a set of new coils, the old ones are tired, part of owning a twenty year old hot rod. Again, I'll keep you guys updated, no doubt the info here will prove useful to someone.
  14. cad-lasalle
    Joined: Sep 1, 2010
    Posts: 91

    from grafton nh

    I had a vibration in the back. A very long story short, rear tires were the culprits, maybe just one, but replaced both for a match. Somebody suggested that in the beginning but it sounded too easy.
  15. Adding caster is going to make a significant positive difference to handle and road manners. But it’s also going raise the outer tie rod ends (assuming front steer spindles) and possibly causing you bump steer issues. Keep the caster gain and work out any bump steer problems.
    trollst likes this.
  16. Spin balancer is the ticket if you can find one, also need 1/8 inch toe in. Toe out will cause wheel hop and crazy tire wear.
  17. I have a Ammco disc rotor resurfacing machine and I've seen many rotors that were cast out of round. Some even had weights shoved in them to make them balance .Some of the hubs were heavy on one side as they were cast wrong . I had a hub that was 3/8 ' on one side of bearing retainer and 1/4' on the other side and when spinning you could see the out of roundness . Spin them by hand when you install them on your spindles to check this . Hope you find your problem .
    trollst likes this.
  18. We installed a M II cross member in a '37 Chev pick-up years ago, like about 35. I might not remember right but doesn't the cross member itself have to be installed on a certain angle as it did in the car?
  19. Blue One
    Joined: Feb 6, 2010
    Posts: 10,676

    Blue One
    from Alberta

    Patiently waiting for the update :):D
  20. Bump, also eagerly awaiting an update...
    Blue One likes this.
  21. Fuck it I’m getting Antsy
    nunattax, anothercarguy and Blue One like this.
  22. trollst
    Joined: Jan 27, 2012
    Posts: 1,783


    Still waiting on rotors, I'm in canada, we have a different time frame than you "mericans" do, they get here when they get here. Craig, the crossmember on a M II, or Pinto is level with the floor in a stocker, I did the same (at ride height), and in twenty years, I've had no issues with tire wear,, this truck tracks and drives as it should, got big miles on it, I have been extremely pleased with it except for this issue. I can't remind you guys enough, this is a MINOR shake, just annoying, only shakes the steering wheel, and two hands on the wheel stops it. It increases with speed, I been over a hundred miles an hour 500 times passing cars, the truck is a delight to drive. I WILL let you guys know what I find. LeRoy.
    Blue One and nunattax like this.
  23. Ron Emerson
    Joined: Feb 1, 2017
    Posts: 166

    Ron Emerson

    It has been brought up before, about a rag joint in the steering, that is also a type of vibration damper.
    I think Borgeson makes one for your application , I was always under the idea of, if you feel a vibration in your butt it is coming from the rear, if you feel it in the steering wheel it is coming from the front. Just my 2 Cents.
    trollst and nunattax like this.
  24. 2manycars2littletime
    Joined: Jul 1, 2009
    Posts: 88


    I had the same kind of high frequency, low amplitude vibration on our OT Pontiac G8. Road force balancing and a new steering rack mount bushing finally fixed it.

    Sent from my Pixel 3a using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
    trollst and nunattax like this.
  25. So....any new developments?
    trollst likes this.
  26. trollst
    Joined: Jan 27, 2012
    Posts: 1,783


    So.......I ordered the rotors from the old car center, on may 4, they deal with speedway, I just got off the phone with them, (old car center), the rotors are back ordered. They figure another couple weeks, story of my life here. Got new front coils, gonna swap rotors, drive it to check it, if not.....then new coils, then off to the front end shop for some custom adjustments, the saga continues.....
  27. roadsterdonpat32
    Joined: Apr 16, 2008
    Posts: 78


  28. trollst
    Joined: Jan 27, 2012
    Posts: 1,783


    Easier to deal with the old car center, if I order from eci direct, the shipping will make you throw up, I live in a small town, and it can be a problem.
  29. captain scarlet
    Joined: Jun 11, 2008
    Posts: 2,403

    captain scarlet
    from Detroit

    With all the stuff you have checked did you look at the rack?

    Inboard joints and any play in the rack it’s self?

    Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
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