So, how DO you do the "Cost of Build" Math??

I was reading the "cheap shot" thread about cars being built cheap. Some people say it can’t be done, others swear it can. Having built several cars in my life and never being rich (and having 4 kids) I can attest to the fact that a car can be built "cheap" but I have some tricks I use to accomplish this. My question is, is this cheating??
Example: I was building a car with a 427 Ford Sideoiler. I bought the engine out of an old boat across the lake from me for $1,000 running. So, that’s a score no doubt. I then bought a rusty 67 Fairlane with a 390 and a 4spd for $300. Below is a picture of the actual car. I used the 9" traction loc, the disc brake parts, the bellhousing and that’s it.

I sold the toploader trans for $700 because it was a small spline toploader and I wanted a big spline toploader. I sold the 4spd console for $650. I sold the engine for $450. I sold the clutch fork for $100. I sold the side moldings for $125. I sold other parts off of the car for more than $500 like the 4spd pedals and such. So, that’s about $2,525 in revenue from a car I paid $300 for to get the trans. That’s $2,225 in profit, deduct the $1,000 cost of the 427, now I’m still $1,225 ahead of game with a 427 sideoiler and the correct bellhousing and disc brake set-up and 9" traction rear end basically for free.

So, am I building my car cheap yet? And if not, why does this not count So, why is it not possible to build a "cheap" car for under say $5,000 using not only your fabrication and building skills, but also your "parts finding" skills and horsetrading skills?

 

Not to hijack the thread, but a fairlane 500 vert with a K-code 289 and a 4 speed... Wow! What a cool little ride. Shame it couldn't have been saved

*edit*
Whoops... Read it again and realized t was a 390 car. Not as much fun as a screamin' 289, but fun none the less.

 

Sounds fair to me. Side oilers rock too.

 

but also your "parts finding" skills and horsetrading skills?

I agree. This is pretty much the MOP of all my builds. Horse trading with exception of some NEEDED speed parts.
My current 37 truck build. I sell off what I don't need and that revenue goes back into my truck. It might balance out that the truck starts at a zero balance.
Key thing is I don't charge myself labor. I look at it as therapy.


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I just add up the cost of materials, I don't figure my time. The way I look at it, I could be patching a rust hole, or watching Barney Miller reruns.

I mean, I can't sell a used TV because I put 9000hours into watching it, so why figure my labor into what I'm trying to build?

I can see there'd definietly be a difference if I was a "shop" and loking to sell/resell what I build, but hell, I'd rather have a Coors in one hand and a tapemeasure n the other, versus a remote control any day

 

I then bought a rusty 67 Fairlane with a 390 and a 4spd for ....That would be a S code. Where did you see K code.
And Yes that would have been worth saving!!

 

this is like the government it is all about how you play the numbers.

nuts and bolts in the shop came from some thing or some where

oil water antifreeze in the shop was bought at some time.

power to run the welder cost money

your time and gas to buy, part out and sell parts cost money

real cost is you spent $1300 for a motor and bell the money you got back was a push for time and effort or any other cost.

 

I was with you and your reasoning until you mentioned "disc brakes"
On a ford of that vintage?? they built like what? 2 of them??

 

Cost of build = the amount of money you spent building your car.

Weather you got $5000 in free parts and spent $300 bucks making it all work (then the cost of the build was $300 bucks) or you pay a shop $12k plus the $8k you spent on parts (then the cost of your build was $20k)...

 

If you are going to charge yourself for your time, you will go broke in a hurry!

I think that the list of people who are a part of this "hobby" that do it as a business, is a short one. We do this for fun, therapy, friendships, hanging out with our family and a myriad of other reasons.

I, for one do my best to roughly keep track of what I've spent for parts so that if I sell a car I can feel good about my hobby not taking anything away from my family.

The other part of the equation is that you also got a mode of transportation out of the deal, so what does it cost me to cart my own ass around for the time I have the car? The number I give myself is about $200 a month.

If I keep the car long enough...it's free!

I know it's lame, but it keeps me guilt free!!!

Just my $.02

 

Yeah I would consider that being ahead.. like other people said theres gas and towing and whatever to consider into your price, but time I dont consider unless your skipping work to play in the garage. So to try and answer your question of why can't a car be built for less than $5,000. Cause not everyone is that 'smart' when it comes to it. People overpay for shit, dont know what they're looking at and dont know what they want and dont know how to wrench, and just... dont know.. some car guys are good at this 'game'.. some.. are not. So can ANYONE build a car for $5,000. NO. Can it be done.. YES.. if your a hustler.. you my friend.. are.

 

Don't cry over the Fairlane. First, it was a Y code 2bbl car. Second the car sat right where it was at for almost 20 years and was so rusty it broke in 3 parts when I tried to move it. It broke at the cowl and right behind the back seat. It was so broken up that I could not even get it up on the trailer and I had to strip it right where it stood. I pulled the 9" out without ever loosining a single bolt, just pulled it out from the side with a strap and my dually.

The original (african american) owner died without a will. The son had the car, the daugher had the title. Neither of them would budge. When the plates expired he drove it there and parked it as an FU to his sister and there it sat all those years.
Oh, and lots of 67 Fords had disc brakes. They were Kelsey Hayes 2 piston calipers that were actually very good.

 

I gotta stand with James427 on this one. Disc brakes is probably cuz he likes to stop as well as start.

I mean, there's Vintage and then there's just plain Common Sense.

 

I've had cars like this that pay me to drive them. Daily drivers I'm talking about.....
You are going about it right. Buyong and selling will get you so iar though and you'll have to start dishing it out though, if you want it nice.

 

the question was...
how do you do the math?

just like any other ledger sheet...

you add up your expenses, subtract your profits there's your total...

like the other guys said, dont forget nuts and bolts, fluids, tie wraps, WD-40, butt connectors, cut off wheels, sand paper, electricity, particle masks, tools you wouldnt have bought otherwise, etc...
if you take your time into account it adds up QUICK!

all that being said, i never consider the cost of a single project unto itself. i do too much buying and selling and swapping. with all of that energy, on paper i'm actually ahead, but in reality, when you consider the gas money chasing around, and all of the misc. baloney involved in doing this, i'm probably closer to breaking even.

this next project i do plan on keeping detailed single project records and then driving it over to JimA's place with all my receipts. (grin) if i cant get it done (and nicely) for under 5k (thats paint and interior friend) i'll walk.

 

I dont, I REALY dont want to know what I spent.

 

My math of how much my projects will cost wther it is a motorcycle or a rod is as follows: I sit myself down and list up as many parts i can think of that is needed in the build, then i estimate a fair price for every part and also for work i have to ship out.
I then sum it up, doubles it and end up happy when it lands in between....
Usually works fine for me.

T.

 

cost of build= add up the cost of time and materials,,,,then TRIPLE it,,

 

I carefully estimate what I think each componant or trinket will cost, tell my wife, and she doubles that. Then, when I get the reciepts, I throw them away...

 

It doesn't matter what it costs, its worth it! I think most people here would agree, or else they wouldn't be here.

 

I don't count it up on my own vehicles. But on a customer I track all the time and every part and shop supply used. It'll add up quick. Build it for you to enjoy and you're fine. Build it to sell and you'll need to add it all up so you can see what you're losing when you sell it.

and what the hell does being African American have to do with anything?
not a thing....

 

Can it be done? sure. Is it easy to find 300 dollar cars with all those valuable parts? NO! You found some home runs.

I've always done it that way. Buy a donor car and deduct the income from resold parts from the cost of the saved parts. Finding the right donor car can actually produce free parts and extra cash to use for more parts.

I also use creative mental accounting in rationalizing the cost of certain high rare parts. If I fall into a 500 dollar part for 200 then my creative accounting says I have 300 in make believe money that can be used when I finally locate that unobtainium part that completes the package. Just part of the addiction I guess.

 

I look at it both ways. I add up how much I "spent", but then I subtract out what I earned on selling related parts and whats left over is what it "cost" me. I'm big on donor cars. I've made out pretty well buying junkers and stripping them down for parts and selling what I don't need. I bought an '87 ford van for $150 and drove it home, it had a rotted frame so it wouldn't pass inspection. Harvested the engine, trans, wiring, even seat foam to make seats with. Took the carcass to the scrap and got $80.

Found a '69 cougar convertable parts car for $300. Harvested the front suspension for the power disk brake setup for another project. Sold the rest of the parts for about $2K.

 

Looks like we're on the same wavelength. BTW, that cougar had a tilt/swing away steering coulmn that I got $650 for. Now that was a once in a lifetime find.

 

i dont even try and keep up with my cars or bikes but you can bet your shiney hiney my wife does!

 

I make better lists now than when I got into cars, because I educate myself as I go along, on costs, availability, options, etc. I think the money saved on projects is proportionate to knowledge and legwork one puts into it. I buy parts and cars I don't want, but sell/barter to get what I want.

I would assume this isn't the most popular approach with the average hobbiest today (outside the HAMB), just look at all the 'kits' for everything like brake upgrades, complete rear ends, etc. Not knocking those that go that way, but it is paying avoid the knowledge and legwork that I find comes cheap in the long run.

I do keep a spreadsheet for each project, with items I have/paid for and what I yet need. It is all more than I WANT to spend, but over time it has a much smaller impact and allows me to plan for purchases than just 'impulse buy'.

 

Why is everyone so obsessed with equating their time (labor) as an hourly pay? This is a passion/hobby for 90% of us on here. If you need your time to be paid and accounted for go get a job at Burger King. If you want to build cars, cheap, you have to use some alternate methods...ie horse trading and such.

 

I never calculate my "time" in the cost. Time building for me is a vacation away from my real "job" and saves my sanity. For me I sold a bunch of stuff off of my coupe I wasn't going to use and deduct that from the total. If you do everything possible yourself you can build on the cheap...there are plenty of guys here (myself included) who do.

 

This is basic accounting. It's cash outlay for all parts and related gathering activities, minus the sale of all unneeded items. A trade is a trade and has no net added value unless that trade got you more than you needed and you sold stuff off after you got your needed items. What you are left with is your cost out of pocket. Pretty simple.

 

Yeah, it's all common sense here really. The guys that want to spend or don't care to spend $$ to get it done or get it done faster will do so. I myself LIKE the hunt for parts on a build. I also like getting a "deal" on everything I put on a car because I enjoy the car and the build so much more. Plus, it is like treasure hunting on youir own endless scavenger hunt. And when you find those killer deals, like I do all of the time, it makes it that much more fun. I can tell pretty easily that I build cars on the cheap because I'm never robbing the family bank account for $$ for my cars.