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Small Block Ford (302) Manual OD Tranny Questions

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by the-rodster, May 2, 2008.

  1. the-rodster
    Joined: Jul 2, 2003
    Posts: 6,550

    the-rodster
    Member

    A bud, (Farmboat) has 48 F1 running a 302 and an older 4 speed.

    The 4 speed is about fried.

    He is thinking about going with a 5 speed and OD.

    What is the cheapest/easiest solution?

    I don't know shit, but I would think grabbing a T5 from a 94-95 5.0 Mustang, and swapping in the s-10 tailshaft for shifter location, would be an easy route.

    Again, I'm no expert.

    What do you guys think?

    Thanks,
    Rich
     
  2. bigolds
    Joined: Oct 27, 2006
    Posts: 883

    bigolds
    Member

    sounds like you've got it nailed.... Some friends of mine have done this swap!!!!
     
  3. Malcolm
    Joined: Feb 9, 2006
    Posts: 7,478

    Malcolm
    Member
    from Nebraska

    The '94-'95 T5 has a longer input shaft, compared to the earlier Mustang T5s. You'll need to keep that in mind, unless you are getting the '94-'95 bellhousing with it.

    Malcolm
     
  4. bartikus
    Joined: Apr 24, 2008
    Posts: 194

    bartikus
    Member

    i know that you can get an adapter plate to bolt the t5 onto the older toploader bell housing that way you wont have to figure out the whole cable clutch. you can keep the clutch likage the way it is. i think a t5 is a great way to go. gives you more gears to slam.
     
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  5. the-rodster
    Joined: Jul 2, 2003
    Posts: 6,550

    the-rodster
    Member

    Who makes it?

    We we're wondering about how to tackle the clutch linkage.
     
  6. Malcolm
    Joined: Feb 9, 2006
    Posts: 7,478

    Malcolm
    Member
    from Nebraska

    Mcleod makes the adapter, but it's kind of expensive:
    http://store.summitracing.com/egnsearch.asp?N=700+400374+316286+115+4294900927&autoview=sku

    I don't think the cable linkage is really that complicated. I've been looking at putting the same setup in my Galaxie. I've already purchased a Mustang clutch pedal setup and it looks like it will be a fairly straight-forward install. There is also huge aftermarket support for the Mustang parts....
     
  7. Flat Ernie
    Joined: Jun 5, 2002
    Posts: 8,410

    Flat Ernie
    Tech Editor

    There are adapters all over eBay to put a T5 behind early Mustang, but they're based on using the '83-93 T5. The 94-95 T5 has about a 5/8" longer input shaft - you can, however, swap just the input shaft, so if you have a good 94-95, just get the input shaft from an 89-93 Mustang T5.

    More info in the tech link in my sig
     
  8. willyswan
    Joined: Jun 3, 2005
    Posts: 13

    willyswan
    Member
    from Austin, TX

  9. scotth
    Joined: Mar 26, 2003
    Posts: 165

    scotth
    Member
    from Austin, TX

    I'll see if I can find the pics, but I saw a really slick manual clutch setup operating what was a cable linkage on here once upon a time. In a nutshell, it was a top hung pedal that connected to a shaft that went up and over the other pedals (the other pedals were mounted to the housing the shaft ran through, like a stock mustang setup) and then had a long arm that dropped down through the floor and was connected to a pushrod that hooked into the cup where the cable ball used to sit.

    I know that sounds complicated, but it really wasn't. Granted, this was in a little hot rod, and the actuating rod would have to be much longer in a big truck and therefore give you less leverage, but it looked to be the simplest way to go. It would sit far enough forward against the firewall that you might not notice it much if you put a boot on it.

    You could also do a floor mount pedal with the same style lever (only pointed up). That would greatly reduce the length of the lever and give you more power, but it would clutter up the floor (unless you mounted it it just under the floor, then you'd just have the pedal coming through)

    Sorry for kinda rambling here, just brainstorming with ya...
     
  10. tjm73
    Joined: Feb 17, 2006
    Posts: 3,310

    tjm73
    Member

    There are probably 25 '87-'93 T5's for every '94-'95 T5 out there. It will be easier to find the earlier box. Around 1990 the box got an upgrade in torque capacity. It was not a big upgrade. The 2.3 T5 is not as strong and is hard to distinguish.

    V8 ratios are 3.35/1.99/1.34/1.00/0.68

    I4 ratios are 3.97/2.34/1.46/1.00/0.79
     
  11. Website for info: Moderndriveline.com
     
  12. bluestang67
    Joined: Feb 7, 2007
    Posts: 589

    bluestang67
    Member

    I located a 94 pedal assembly from a Mustang . The mount is very small and fits the Model A very easy. The pic shows it just loosly hanging by clamps but for cable clutch this is a perfect match i think . Pedals swing left for column clearence . Doing hanging pedals and running a full hood so master on firewall is ok on this one .
     

    Attached Files:

  13. tjm73
    Joined: Feb 17, 2006
    Posts: 3,310

    tjm73
    Member

    That plastic thing to the right of the pedal pivots is the automatic clutch adjustment device Ford used. It's junk. Get rid of it and replace it with an aluminum clutch quadrant kit available from any late model Mustang supply house. And try to use a Ford clutch cable if at all possible. No aftermarket cables are as good as Fords.

    Also, I'm pretty sure all I4, I6, V6 and V8 Mustangs from 1979 through 2004 used the same pedal assembly. Great idea by the way.
     
  14. R Pope
    Joined: Jan 23, 2006
    Posts: 3,310

    R Pope
    Member

    If his old 4-speed is a toploader, a four over from a Ford pickup or a late '70's Torino, to name a few, is a bolt-in. I have one on a 351 Windsor and it's a tough trans.
     
  15. Flat Ernie
    Joined: Jun 5, 2002
    Posts: 8,410

    Flat Ernie
    Tech Editor

    Gears in V8 changed in mid-year '89 I believe.

    The 2.3 input shaft is much longer than the V8 and smaller in diameter - pretty easy once you've seen one.
     
  16. bluestang67
    Joined: Feb 7, 2007
    Posts: 589

    bluestang67
    Member

    tjm73 I knew of the firewall quadrant but not for that one thanks for the info . The oem cable i had heard is the only way to go aftermarket fail sooner . I also have the gas pedal and cable which in stock form will mount right up for my application . The Mustang has a very tight foot well so these should adapt to any vehicle very well . I picked up everything at a U Pick for $20 .
     
  17. Nick32vic
    Joined: Jul 17, 2003
    Posts: 3,016

    Nick32vic
    Member

    Sounds like you go tit figured out but heres another option. the tranny in my car was 75 bucks and it was rebuilt. Got it from a tranny shop going out of business. Its from a late 80s f150 i think. Its a 3 speed and 4th is overdrive. A 5 speed would probably be better but one of these trannys can probably found for super cheap.
     
  18. tjm73
    Joined: Feb 17, 2006
    Posts: 3,310

    tjm73
    Member

    I don't think it is longer, but it is smaller. The I4 T5 will bolt up to a V8 with no problems.

    I bleed late model Mustang when I'm not drooling over T-buckets. I don't recall a gear change that late in production. Nothing substantial anyway. In '84 they had very different ratios. Now I gotta go do research. Gee thanks.... :rolleyes: :D.

    EDIT - UPDATE:

    Ok. at http://www.mustanggt.org/gttranny.htm you can see the ratios used in Mustang V8 boxes from 1982-1993. There was a slight change in '89 inthe 2nd & 3rd ratios. But it was small.

    Also of note, and not shown in the chart, is the Ford Racing Performance Products T5 known as the "Z-Spec" T5. it has the same ratios as the 1984 box, but a 330 ft-lb rating and some beefed up internals. bearings instead of bushings, etc.. stuff like that.
     
  19. Ford-Man
    Joined: Apr 6, 2009
    Posts: 288

    Ford-Man
    Member

    I also used a 4 over in my '49 F-1 behind my 289, but I am going to use a stock Mustang style cable mounted to a clevice on the bottom of my clutch pedal. It should work by all my measurements, and there are even companies I heard that make whole cable kits for that particular application, I am just cheap. I had to make a plate for the rear trans mount because it was a little off center, but it bolted right in. The shifter is proving to be the hardest part!
     
  20. You might look want to look for a Ford RUG. They were a 4 speed Tremec unit with overdrive 4th. Make sure you get the cast iron case (mid to late 80's F-150's and such) as the aluminum case version was used in cars and is quite weak.

    [​IMG]
     
  21. Ford-Man
    Joined: Apr 6, 2009
    Posts: 288

    Ford-Man
    Member

    Best I can tell, mine is from a late 70's, early 80's F series with a cast iron case. According to David Kee, he calls these "impostor" toploaders because to the untrained eye they can easily be pawned off as true toploaders. I got mine fully rebuilt off the bay for $175. There is a junk yard around here that has a few for as little as $75 depending on condition. I almost got a second one for a just in case, but for as abundant as they are, and cheap as they are to rebuild I said forget it.
     
  22. PetesPonies
    Joined: Nov 6, 2007
    Posts: 268

    PetesPonies
    Member
    from Maryland

    Old thread but I must comment. The gears in a 4 cyl T5 and a V8 T5 are exactly the same, in a Mustang. What changes the ratios is the input shaft and counbtershaft, which are different between the two transmissions. It does mean, if you swap those two pieces, you effectively have a V8 trans.
     
  23. willymakeit
    Joined: Apr 13, 2009
    Posts: 1,326

    willymakeit
    Member

    Would the t5 bolt up where a t18 or t19 was?
    I don't know if its worth changing since I have a 3.00 rear gear. The granny low 6.32 is useful.
    Curious as I have thought about going 3.50 rear with a t5.
     
  24. bdynpnt
    Joined: Feb 9, 2009
    Posts: 354

    bdynpnt
    Member

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