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Small block Chevy guys...what do I have?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by MrModelT, Oct 15, 2012.

  1. Model T1
    Joined: May 11, 2012
    Posts: 3,309

    Model T1
    Member

    I am confused.. I see rally stripes on this red car.
    Did it also have the duel rally pack gauges on the steering colume?
    My black 1965 did. In 65 there were no rally stripes that I remember. At least mine had none.
    But I did have the rallye stripes on my 1960 Austin Healy Sprite with 327.
     
  2. slowmotion
    Joined: Nov 21, 2011
    Posts: 3,330

    slowmotion
    Member

    "If you notice on the window sticker, it lists the "Rally Stripes" as optional and Grandpa's car was minus these stripes. His is the ONLY one I have ever seen or seen reference to without them."

    Hey MMT, A good friend of mine has a dark green '66 that was the same non-stripe deal. He bought it used around '67 w/4K or so miles. Still has it. Had it redone a few yrs ago and had the stripes added because he always liked them :(. Cool to know there was at least one other one that way.

    Very interesting that the registry notes the Chevy engine intall.
     
  3. MrModelT
    Joined: Nov 11, 2008
    Posts: 2,745

    MrModelT
    Member

    The GT-350's had two different sets of stripes, one standard and one optional. All Shelbys had the Rocker Panel I.D. Stripes (below the doors saying "GT-350") the "Rallye Stripes" are the big stripes that passed over the top of the car front to back...these were optional:

    [​IMG]



    That is the exact same thing that happened to Grandpa's Shelby when it was "restored" in 1994 (according to the registry).

    I thought the registry detail was really in depth.....I wonder if Grandpa was a member and contributed that info?
     
  4. Sal Cicala
    Joined: Aug 17, 2012
    Posts: 14

    Sal Cicala
    Member

    That's pretty neat too, that the original invoice to the Shelby shows that your Grandfather traded in a 1957 Olds 2 dr. and they gave him $200 credit for it.
    Nice to finally know it was a 327 in there too. I'll bet the car was quite a bit quicker with the 327 and not reall any heavier. Maybe slightly heavier.
     
  5. MrModelT
    Joined: Nov 11, 2008
    Posts: 2,745

    MrModelT
    Member

    I always found that cool too....makes you kinda sick though, wishing you could pick up a '57 Olds for $200 now!

    This is the Olds he traded in....

    [​IMG]



    I'm not sold on the "327" just yet....that is just what the Shelby Registry states. It could be correct however, but the photos will confirm (hopefully).
     
  6. dirty old man
    Joined: Feb 2, 2008
    Posts: 8,910

    dirty old man
    Member Emeritus

    Till that thing gets the stroke measured, and a look at parting line on crank flange there's no way to be sure what it is.
    One thing that doesn't mean shit though is the comment on a small harmonic balancer. You can't use the big balancer with the Hurst saddle mount.
    I'm sorta confused though, as in some posts it's implied that the heads and valve covers are yet to be removed and in others you see combustion chambers in heads and pics of piston domes.
     
  7. el Scotto
    Joined: Mar 3, 2004
    Posts: 4,699

    el Scotto
    Member
    from Tracy, CA

    I LOVE the fact that someone installed a Chevy 350 into a Shelby Mustang!! :)
     
    Deuces likes this.
  8. MrModelT
    Joined: Nov 11, 2008
    Posts: 2,745

    MrModelT
    Member

    I agree, it is all speculation still at this point.

    I did remove the heads and get pictures of the insides, just no photos of the Rocker area with the valves covers removed and a few other detail shots some have asked for.
     
  9. Sal Cicala
    Joined: Aug 17, 2012
    Posts: 14

    Sal Cicala
    Member

    That '57 Olds was a beauty. Even in '66 you would think it was worth more than $200 !! I hope it turns out to be a 327 for your sake. More valuable than a 350.
     
  10. Sal Cicala
    Joined: Aug 17, 2012
    Posts: 14

    Sal Cicala
    Member

    I've been doing more looking and thinking.., and I'm leaning towards the engine being a 350. The #2009 piston, I'm fairly positve is a 350 piston. 327's and 350's used a 5.7" connecting rod, and the 350 pistons had a shorter compression height (distance from the center of the piston pin hole to the flat deck on top of the piston). So if it were a 327 crankshaft the piston would be a fair amount below the deck of the block when at TDC.
     
  11. HamD
    Joined: Mar 3, 2011
    Posts: 298

    HamD
    Member

    Now, I haven't torn down a million engines like some of the HAMB members.

    But is it really unrealistic to stop speculating the stroke with info like that?

    edit: oh hey, I missed Sal's post.
     
  12. Chances are the engine is a 350 with those piston numbers as 350 pistons. I can't imagine anybody O-ringing the block if the 350 piston swings on a 327 crank, thereby lowering the compression ratio a bunch. O-ringing wouldn't be necessary at all.
    And as far as 327s being more valuable as 350s? My machinist doesn't agree and to prove it he gave me [freebie] a really nice steel 327 crank for my last SBC build. Said all his customers are going to the scat 400-style crank to make 383s from large journal 327s and 350 engines. He had several 327 cranks on the shelf and nobody wanted them. The 327 pistons are getting a lilttle harder to find but still available. Wish he'd give me a large journal 302 crank.
     
  13. Me too!

    Probably because it made MORE POWER!!

    That's a bitchen little engine... we have basically the same motor, (except a 283) in our altered... and on alcohol it runs 10.40's.

    Put it in something light, with a four speed... and HAUL ASS!

    Sam
     
  14. I think I have the same number on my old L-82 [195 HP] 1974 corvette short block in storage. Can't wait to hear if yours is a 2 or 4 bolt block as I'm too lazy to yank my oil pan to check.
     
  15. fastlane666
    Joined: Sep 10, 2012
    Posts: 45

    fastlane666
    Member

    I agree with rocky. Bigger engine bigger power. 327 is a lil screamer but a 408 makes way more torque.
     
  16. I would rather have the small journal 302 crank which is much more uncommon. Not to run, just to have as a conversation piece. As for heads, everyone keeps spouting about 462 heads but they came in both 1.94 and 2.02 configuration and a lot of the 1.94s were converted over to 2.02 by hogging out the bowls. Here are specs for the 462s without the accessory bolt holes.

    3890462 - 302/327/350, 62-68 1.94/1.5 64cc
    2.02/1.6 64cc
    3891462 - 302/327/350, 62-67 1.94/1.5 64cc
    2.02/1.6 64cc

    The average intake runner volume on them was 170cc and the exhaust was about 75cc. The best way to tell what he has is to pull a valve cover and check the casting numbers. I am not 100% sure about the block in earlier years but most small blocks I have worked on have numbers stamped on the flat machined are at the front of the passenger side cylinder deck in front of the head. If those number are there they have been more help figuring out the engine information than anything else I have used. On the 350 I just finished building those numbers revealed the plant where the block was cast, what year and type vehicle it was used in, two or four barrel carb and yes, four bolt main.
     
  17. inlinr6
    Joined: Oct 27, 2009
    Posts: 344

    inlinr6
    Member

    Chevy motor in a Mustang?...must have been the fastest,most reliable Mustang of his time.
     
  18. MrModelT
    Joined: Nov 11, 2008
    Posts: 2,745

    MrModelT
    Member

    I'm inclined to agree with Rocky as well, he just makes logical sense......why would they have ringed the block otherwise?
     
  19. fastlane666
    Joined: Sep 10, 2012
    Posts: 45

    fastlane666
    Member

    Well i had a hot small journal 327. That thing would rev 7000 rpm plus.i put the same combo in a 408 my car is a full second quicker.with a 6200 rpm limit
     
  20. Drive Em
    Joined: Aug 25, 2006
    Posts: 1,748

    Drive Em
    Member

    I can't believe this thread is still going!!
     
  21. Model T1
    Joined: May 11, 2012
    Posts: 3,309

    Model T1
    Member

    Thanks for the correction on the Mustang Rally Stripes. it's been a few years and a few cars since 1965-66 for me. And personally I'd rather had grandpa's 57 Olds.
    What a mix of info over a small orange Ford engine!:D
     
  22. tjet
    Joined: Mar 16, 2009
    Posts: 1,335

    tjet
    Member
    1. Early Hemi Tech

    Me too.

    Of course it's completely sacrilegious to the Barrett-Jackson types that mark up these cars 200% :D

    I'm guessing that a SBC kit was available to fit the pony car. I bet a small block chevy was the best fitting option for a mustang without major surgery. Try changing the spark plugs in a '66 Stang with a Ford 390...Nightmare.

    It's cool you have the original documents. It really doesn't matter that it was a 350 Chevy in a Mustang. What matters is you have uncovered an interesting aspect about your grandfather. He must have enjoyed the power increase with that 350.

    These old cars that we have to enjoy & work on carry a part of everyone who touched it before :cool:
     
  23. dualquadpete
    Joined: Jul 9, 2010
    Posts: 29

    dualquadpete
    Member

    14 pages & we still don't know "what: it is!!!!!!!! I have to go shave now as I grew a beard reading all 14 pgs.
     
  24. Deuces
    Joined: Nov 3, 2009
    Posts: 23,882

    Deuces

    Don't know what your babbling about when it comes to the small journal 302 crank... It's the same as the forged 283 version... And the #462 heads had 65cc chambers and not 64's like the #461 had...
     
  25. "Don't know what your babbling about when it comes to the small journal 302 crank... It's the same as the forged 283 version... And the #462 heads had 65cc chambers and not 64's like the #461 had..."
    .
    .
    .
    The small journal 302 crank has all the same dimensions but has its' own number made into the crank. I got a buddy who has one and is saving it for the "just right" customer who has to have a numbers matching '67 302 chevy engine.
    Myself? I've got 3 steel 283 cranks that will work just fine for a 302...and a set of TRW forged pistons for 301..or as chevy called 'em, a 302 ...which was in reality a 301.59 cu in engine.
    None of this crap has a thing to do with the O.P.'s original post but it is an interesting "aside".
    Besides, his chevy motor could have a large journal 3 inch DZ crank, making it a 30....er, 2.
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2012
  26. luisp55
    Joined: Jul 28, 2011
    Posts: 10

    luisp55
    Member

    It's a 283 or 327, by the small balancer, high compression pistons, camel hump heads with 2.02 n 1.60 valves. It's a cool engine.
     
  27. Deuces
    Joined: Nov 3, 2009
    Posts: 23,882

    Deuces

    I read a story once that GM got their parts from the parts bins to come up with the first 302's... The 283 crank, a 327 block and heads, forged 5.7" rods, .030"/.030" camshafts... They did have Winters foundry tool up a very nice intake for the motor and TRW did one "Y" move on their mills to come up with the 302 pistons...
    It probably took longer to produce the intake manfold...
     
  28. Drive Em
    Joined: Aug 25, 2006
    Posts: 1,748

    Drive Em
    Member


    390 in a '66 Mustang, now that is funny!!!
     
  29. Deuces
    Joined: Nov 3, 2009
    Posts: 23,882

    Deuces

    Well, not really.... Some folks stuffed 427 FE cammers in them cars...:D
     

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  30. theHIGHLANDER
    Joined: Jun 3, 2005
    Posts: 10,259

    theHIGHLANDER
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    If you think that's funny, how about a 427 in a 65? That's right a gennie 427 "mid riser" as Dad and ol' Dick Mitchell (infamous Motown area racer) refered to it. It was put together at Dearborn Steel Tubing for either Jim White or Wm Clay Ford (fuzzy memory admitted). Dad was laid up recovering from back surgery and Dick came by with Wm Clay to visit (both had tipped a few before they arrived). Mom sat at the kitchen table with Mr. Ford while Dick took dad for a "very scary ride" in this nearly invincible musclecar. We had pics of all this but after a house fire in 69 (!) we lost a multitude of precious car paper and memories, including every car mag that Dad ever bought or subscribed to. Hey, sometimes life leaves a mark, right?


    Now back onto the topic, this whole story is just awesome. Forget the brand names, I'll bet that Shelby would have left nearly the same impression as a BBF in the hole, just a lot more RPM! As far as the balancer/stroke/displacement discussion, part numbers don't lie. The odds of it being something other than a 350 are pretty slim. That was a "big" small block in it's day and clearly one of the most user-friendly of all the SBCs extant. From truck to track it did the job. There was a stock 70 Z28 in Lincoln Park that was geared and header'd and ran low 12s in the 1/4 mile with small slicks on Vette ralleys.
     

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