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Single stage paint question

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Jay71, Oct 23, 2013.

  1. Jay71
    Joined: Sep 15, 2007
    Posts: 856

    Jay71
    Member

    Painted my first car a couple weeks ago. The owner bought the cheapest single stage the paint shop had, Nason Urethane. After shooting we did a light scuff with 1200 to let it gas off for a week. Went back and did a couple passes on a panel with 1500 and the primer underneath is starting to show through. Was told that that paint is very transparent cause its cheap. Thought I had loaded it up but apparently not enough. Ultimately I am going to reshoot the car instead of going through the whole process of wet sanding to 2000 only to find out there's not enough material to buff. My question is, do I go back on with the same material n just load it up more, or should we go out and buy a better quality single stage that will have more coverage? Havin fun but we want this thing back on the road!
     
  2. Leadsled51
    Joined: Dec 21, 2001
    Posts: 333

    Leadsled51
    Member

    Of course you already know the answer. The cheaper stuff doesn't have the same pigments in it, and it seems to take a bit more to cover. The more expensive stuff will cover better, and in the end, will look better and last longer. It's all what you want to spend. I have seen some of the cheaper single stage look good, though.
     
  3. Use the same material that is already on it. Wet sand it with 600, clean it up and respray it. It will lay out nice and be really easy to wet sand the final time for polishing.

    Hack

    Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
     
  4. If I was recoating over my other paint I would want to use the same stuff. But Nason may have a higher quality paint that is compatible, compatibility is the only real question here.

    maybe the answer is to blow another 3 coats of the same stuff and don't lean on it as hard when you color sand.
     

  5. Bring it back down to a 600 blocking and shoot it again with the Nason . If you don't have any paint left or enough to do a repaint step up the game a little and have your buddy put a few more deneros into some better quality paint . What $$$ he thought he was saving just went out the window with the double time you now have to spend to get the car to where you want it . By the way , what kind of car are we talking here ? Pictures ??
     
  6. I buy Nason all the time.its actually DuPont.If I ask for DuPont,they mix from same cans as they do for Nason..
     
  7. 28TUDOR
    Joined: Jan 25, 2007
    Posts: 419

    28TUDOR
    Member

    You could wet sand it with 600 and shoot it again. Then half and half it with clear, next coat 1/4 color 3/4 clear, then 2 coats of clear. You'll have plenty to cut and buff and it will be slick as glass. Nason is what's on my 28 with SPI clear and you can see yourself in it.
     
  8. Jay71
    Joined: Sep 15, 2007
    Posts: 856

    Jay71
    Member

    Don't have enough material to do a complete reshoot. I think I burned up a lot of the material having to cover a darker color on the roof. I was also told that I could have the paint guy mix up the same single stage urethane but have him add more pigment to it so it would cover better. Is that true? The car is a 53 Chevy 2 dr. Sedan. I lay fiberglass and shoot gel coat on a daily basis, but this paint is a whole new ball game. Thanks for all the tips guys.
     

  9. Sounds like it is something that the paint guy could do. He would have to be able to think to get the proper proportions if pigments to mix the same color.

    I know this is the door after the cows got out but I am a firm believer in using primer that compliments my paint. IE light primer for light paint and dark primer for dark paint. For instance I am shooting something this winter in black lacquer. Well my experience is that all lacquer is translucent to a certain degree, so to keep my depth I am using black primer. I am shooting for deepest darkest mid night in the cypress swamp black.

    Ok off on a rabbit trail but it is just info for the masses.
     
  10. That might work with house paint, but not automotive stuff!
     
  11. Why not, it is mixed just like any other paint. It is just pigmant held in suspension in a solvent. The pigment is the color and the solvent is the vehicle that carries it to its final distination. The solvent evaporates and if you're lucky and have done everything right the pigment adheres to the surface that is landed on.
     
  12. rustang
    Joined: Sep 10, 2009
    Posts: 710

    rustang
    Member

    +1 .......Question, how many coats did you put on? You say you loaded it up, but if you are cutting through with 1200 and 1500 you do not have much of a mil build.

    Also, what is the Nason Single stage you are using? Fulcryl? or something else?
    Tom
     
  13. Jay71
    Joined: Sep 15, 2007
    Posts: 856

    Jay71
    Member

    The paint was Urethane Ful-Thane. I tried to do one very light coat followed by 2 medium coats, but being my first time my consistency is definitely in question and it got a bit light on the pass. door.I'm pretty sure there's enough material on other areas of the car, but I don't want to take the chance of doing all that sanding and having to reshoot it anyway.
     
  14. outlaw256
    Joined: Jun 26, 2008
    Posts: 2,023

    outlaw256
    Member

    i mixed paint for 20 yrs. auto paint. beaner is right. he can add more of the main pigment to the mix. .we shot paint for 40 yrs.it sounds more like he might have leaned on the paper to much while sanding.dont know really wasn't there. but if primer is showing thru it one of 2 things. not enough coverage or to hard on the paper.dont think its in the paint mix. ive used that paint before. cheap but it seemed to cover pretty good.
     
  15. Stop tryin 2 safe a buck.
    Buy some decent quality paint in ss urethane , shoot it and be done with it.
    NASON IS JUNK



    Sent from the wooden crank phone in my bathroom
     
  16. jazz1
    Joined: Apr 30, 2011
    Posts: 1,512

    jazz1
    Member

    Yep.. not getting enough product on the panel. I am not familiar with the product but since you are a novice you no doubt laid the product too thin to avoid the dreaded runs 'n sags motif. You have to be confident in laying down the initial coat that your surface is prepared to hold a 2ml (or close to it) coat. Knock it down with 600, respray and continue to work cheap like many of us do.
    When you order paint specify no runs or sags in paint..it's a special additive but well worth it.
     
  17. henryj1951
    Joined: Sep 23, 2012
    Posts: 2,305

    henryj1951
    Member
    from USA

    HOK, SW, DUPONT, ICI, and on and on and on...
    Painters get USED to ONE or 2 paint lines because its easy er to remember the use data.

    see if , go to where you got the paint, and ask for a bit of help,
    they can help IF THEY WANT TO.

    :cool:

    see / read things like --->Starfire Wet look Acrylic Enamel hardener<---
    google is your friend too.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2013
  18. Jimbo17
    Joined: Aug 19, 2008
    Posts: 3,919

    Jimbo17
    Member

    A lot of very interesting comments about how to fix the problem.

    My question is and I know this will spark a whole new debate is what single stage paint should he have purchased in your professional opinion?

    I find if I ask this question to 10 different guys who paint for a living I usually get 10 different answers which makes it very hard for any person new to painting to figure out what the hell to purchase.

    Jimbo
     
  19. henryj1951
    Joined: Sep 23, 2012
    Posts: 2,305

    henryj1951
    Member
    from USA

    wet sand it 400/600 re-coat same paint.. if and when done correctly it WILL NOT need any sanding OR buffing.
    clean clean clean
    dust and dirt nibs , come from 3 areas.... you---- the car--- the environment.

    tacky not stringy


    :cool:
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2013
  20. Jimbo
    DuPont is my go to paint. You are correct everyone has a preferance. PPg seems to be the most popular these days but I still like DuPont, it is what I am familiar with and I like the way it shoots. Of course I am not a pro and maybe it is just amature paint. :D
     
  21. What color are you painting and what type of spray gun are you using ? Where was the primer showing through ?
    You just cant just add a little more pigment to change the transparency of the color . By adding additional toner you will change the color unless you add the equivalent percentage of other toners in the formula. The toners vary in transparency and reds , yellows and some oranges are very transparent whether your using a low end or high end paint . If your shooting any of these colors the proper colored sealer is a must .
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2013
  22. 3window31
    Joined: Jun 8, 2013
    Posts: 75

    3window31
    Member
    from AZ

    Some colors cover better than others. It has nothing to do with the paint being cheap. I don't know anything about Nason, I have never used it. California has different paint laws, maybe that's all they can sell you. California paint is a lower VOC than other states.
     
  23. robertsregal
    Joined: Oct 2, 2008
    Posts: 743

    robertsregal
    Member

    As has been stated you need to respray. I do not think you had coverage. I would get a test panel from paint supplier black & white checker pattern sheet. Spray number of coats to hide pattern. This is the number of coats needed to paint car. If you want you could lay a couple coats of clear on top to sand and buff? You should not have gone thru with 1500 to 2000 paper unless you made a career of sanding. Good Luck
     
  24. Jay71
    Joined: Sep 15, 2007
    Posts: 856

    Jay71
    Member


    Shooting SS Colonial White over a grey primer, except the roof. I had to cover a burgundy color. I know, I know, I shoulda covered the roof with a coat of primer too but to late for that now. Burned a lot of material on the roof. Back to the original question, should I reshoot with the same Nason SS, or go with a higher end SS? I'm using a De Vilbiss Finish Line gun. Was told that's fine for a novice.
     
  25. Sand with 600 and reshoot with the Nason color . This is just white paint and you should not be having transparency issues . Precisely measure out the 8 parts of color , 1 part hardener ,and 2parts reducer . Bartending the mix can result in over thinned paint which can result in coverage issues . You can cut the reducer to 1 part if you need to. Its a preference thing . Buying a higher grade paint is not going to resolve the coverage issue . I believe you just didn't get enough on the panel . A car the size of a 53 Chevy should take approximately 5 to 6 quarts of color for a complete refinish including jambs. If you applied 3 coats of color to all panels you should have had enough to sand and buff without going through .

    Check the spray gun reference manual for the proper material feed settings on the spray gun . This should have been in the box of the spray gun when purchased. Make sure all other gun adjustments and air pressure settings are in keeping with the spray gun manual .

    Where was the primer showing through ??????
     
  26. Jay71
    Joined: Sep 15, 2007
    Posts: 856

    Jay71
    Member

    Primer was beginning to show through on the lower part of passenger door. Also, I believe I mixed the color 4 prts. Paint, 2 prts. Reducer, 1 prt. Hardener. Pretty sure that's what the can said. That would be a much more transparent mixture that the 8, 2, 1, mixture you mentioned above would it not? Thanks for the input!
     
  27. There is NOTHING wrong with Nason Ful-Thane. It is a great paint if you know what you are doing. BUT it is 8 parts color, to 1 part catalyst and 2 parts reducer. You want a viscosity of 19” – 21” #2 Zahn. I think you were way too thin and not enough paint
    You can usually cover just fine with this paint with one medium coat, wait for it to tack off, about 45-60 minutes, followed by one Heavy wet coat.
    You should be using a 1.5 to 1.8mm tip on that gun at about 10psi at the air cap
     
  28. 8-1-2 ratio is for Nason Ful-Thane single stage . Check the label on the can of color for the correct ratio and hardener numbers . If the lower door is your only problem why not just respray the door to the side mldg just above the handle . Its not uncommon for lower sections and panels to be a little light on material. You need to make an effort to make sure you have good coverage on the lower sections . Back in the 60's and 70's 50 to 70 percent of new cars that came in off the carriers were light on the bottom. The painters at the factory just could not bend that far down later in the day.
     
  29. That Nason is good paint, we did a touring that a fellow HAMBer painted and it looked like a million $$$$$$$$$$$
     
  30. Jay71
    Joined: Sep 15, 2007
    Posts: 856

    Jay71
    Member

    Great advice guys! I'll have to check the can when I get home but I'm almost positive I mixed it 4-2-1. Probably operator error mixed with some very thinned out paint. I'll get it next time though.
     

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