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Single Stage Gloss Black

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by scootermcrad, Feb 15, 2010.

  1. scootermcrad
    Joined: Sep 20, 2005
    Posts: 12,348

    scootermcrad
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Okay guys. Need some help. I had been planning on running PPG's Concept single stage gloss black (DCC9000) on all my running gear components. I called my local paint guy and he says it's no longer available. Not sure if that's just in California, but whatever the case, I can't just run over and pick it up.

    SOOO... Anymore recommendations for a single stage black that will be durable enough? Someone in the Southern Cali area that has experience with this very issue? Pimpin' Paint maybe?

    This will be laid down over sealed Epoxy primer.

    Been looking at chassis paints, but most seem to have a low tolerance to UV. Should I go for a marine grade paint like Awlgrip or Sterling products?? Does PPG offer something ELSE that would be similar to the Concept DCC9000 that I can actually get here??

    I would appreciate some feedback. Going to go over to the local paint place this week, so it would be nice to have some options to throw out there.

    Thanks!
     
  2. bigguylilroof
    Joined: Jul 1, 2009
    Posts: 210

    bigguylilroof
    Member

    do you like ppg? if you do check into dcc9300 sprayed it just a couple months back. ppg also has the clv 9300 and the clv 9700 that is still voc compliant. concept is going to be more expensive but it sprays great. also your local ppg supplier should carry omni, which is ppg's lower line of paint and still decent for what you want, and i have lived in cali so i feel your pain. for undercarrige go cheap!! hope that helps!
     
  3. JeffreyJames
    Joined: Jun 13, 2007
    Posts: 16,612

    JeffreyJames
    Member
    from SUGAR CITY

    I have not shot it but I have seen it on friends cars and so I picked up a gallon.

    Dupont

    Centari 5000
    V0001mv

    Black / Noir

    It's super durable and looking like the parts were dipped in the crudest of texas gold. It's pretty rad stuff Scooter!
     
  4. I dont want to hijack this thread but this is on the same topic, has anyone used "RustBullet" before? it sounds pretty cool didnt know how it looks on cars with exposed frame rails.
     

  5. 1oldtimer
    Joined: Aug 21, 2003
    Posts: 7,676

    1oldtimer
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    did he say the color wasn't around or was it the paint. i just bought some ppg concept about 3 weeks ago, they sell a cheaper version called omni but it SUCKS. i just called he said they can "make" a single stage black, they don't just sell black pre made in the can (it takes a few minutes to make)........i still have some acrylic enamel from the 90's left :).
     
  6. 28 chevy
    Joined: Mar 5, 2006
    Posts: 512

    28 chevy
    Member
    from NE Pa

    10-4 on the sucking omni. (experience!)
     
  7. that centari line works. I've shot it on 2 cars.
     
  8. J'st Wandering
    Joined: Jan 28, 2004
    Posts: 1,717

    J'st Wandering
    Member

    What are the problems with Omni? That is what I have been using on the bottom side stuff.

    Neal
     
  9. Smokin' Joe
    Joined: Jul 4, 2006
    Posts: 1,001

    Smokin' Joe
    Member Emeritus

    Doesn't cover as well, kinda like the old adage..."ya get what ya pay for"
    I'd rather pay the big buck and buy the top of the line stuff.

     
  10. 1930roadster
    Joined: Nov 9, 2009
    Posts: 323

    1930roadster
    Member

    Always use top grade paints and primers, end of story... 30 years exp. ask the body supply whats replacing it. i dont think they will discontinue their best selling single stage without a replacement
     
  11. 40StudeDude
    Joined: Sep 19, 2002
    Posts: 9,435

    40StudeDude
    Member


    Hmmmmmmmmmmmm, I shot a '70 Camaro with Omni 10 years ago...and then used Omni clear over it...it STILL looks good today...matter of fact, the car looks so good it recently sold for $10,000. If the paint was bad, it sure wouldn't have fetched that much...

    R-
     
  12. scootermcrad
    Joined: Sep 20, 2005
    Posts: 12,348

    scootermcrad
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    What is CLV 9300 and 9700? What series is that? I cannot get any DCC9000 or DCC9300. I suspect it's a california thing, but maybe it's everywhere.

    I've heard mixed reviews on the Omni paint, but I know there is a well-known HAMBer that used it on his coupe and it looks AWESOME. The majority say it's probably not a good choice though.

    I'll check into the DuPont Centari stuff. I'm not brand picky, but I am concerned about mixing and matching products. I've not heard anything bad about DuPont products.

    Keep it coming guys! Thanks!
     
  13. slider's house of kustoms
    Joined: Nov 13, 2009
    Posts: 202

    slider's house of kustoms
    Member
    from idaho

    Napa Premium commerial Coatings part # galpcc135b this is our GOOD single stage Acrylic Enamel commercial paint NOT tractor paint! This is what is used on semi truck chassis. Gloss black; can be shot with or without hardener, i'd go with personally. It's around 48.00 a gallon 28.00 gallon reducer and 28 for quart hardener mixed 8*2*1. Little spendy but good stuff!!!!
     
  14. 1oldtimer
    Joined: Aug 21, 2003
    Posts: 7,676

    1oldtimer
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    if you can try betz speed in orange for dupont. but ppg is still ok in california, try a different paint place.
     
  15. GasserDave
    Joined: Feb 15, 2010
    Posts: 132

    GasserDave
    Member
    from Sin City

    Call D'angelos in Vegas. THey can get whatever you want and ship it wherever...Look on ebay for paint shops in vegas or arizona, they dont mind shipping.....Dave
     
  16. BRENT in 10-uh-C
    Joined: Apr 14, 2004
    Posts: 502

    BRENT in 10-uh-C
    Member

    A little FWIW info. A couple of weeks ago I attended a PPG certification class, ...and while 99.9% of the attendees were shooting BC/CC, I and my employee were the only ones attending the class who strictly shoot DCC. The instructor told me that Concept was slowly being dropped from the line because of trace heavy metals in the formulas.

    In our conversations I explained that BC/CC was too "plastic looking" for our applications, ...and I jokingly said that DCC was getting WAY too expensive. He explained that while we can expect all single-stage to be dropped within the next 5 years, that for the interim the best product on the market right now in single-stage from PPG was their DelFleet 'Essential'. We have shot about a gallon of it so far and are really impressed. It comes 3 quarts to a gallon and uses 1 quart of hardner, ...yet when you factor in what a gallon of DCC costs, then 2 qts of DT thinner and a quart of DCX hardener, it appears the Essential is about 40% cheaper. What we really like is that we colorsand all of our paint to 3000 grit and buff it. The Essential seems to really "shell up" quickly, and gets extremely hard. For a deep rich shine, THAT is what is needed.

    With regard to Omni line, ...it is PPG's older technology that also uses less quality ingredients as a way to compete in production shops. While the majority of folks may not have a trained eye to be able to spot the difference between the two, the biggest thing you will notice is pigment purity between DCC & the Omni line. Their clear is "milk-ier" too. Also, we have found the shell is softer on lines like Omni, Matrix, Valspar, etc., ...which we can tell when we are colorsanding the finish coat. Generally speaking, I budget between 30-40 hours to hand colorsand paint (no DA w/ stik-it because of chatter). If it takes 25% longer to do the softer paint (which is about what we have noticed), that equates to an extra 10+/- hours of labor. If your hourly rate is $50 an hour, that equals $400-$500 extra costs incurred, ...which is more than the cost to upgrade to the better DCC line over Omni.

    I also want to be quick and say that if the cheaper lines are working for your application, please don't construe what I am saying as "yours is junk and mine is better", ...but just understand that there really is a difference between the two. I might also comment that my bodymen can tell the difference between 3M production paper and sanding with the cheaper ones. ;) Hope this helps some.
     
  17. shoprat
    Joined: Dec 23, 2006
    Posts: 1,109

    shoprat
    Member Emeritus
    from Orange, CA

    Betz's store is closed. Stan retired. Maybe try Las Vegas or Parker Arizona for paint.
    I got my hardner and reducer for my single stage PPG Black in Havasu. The PPG
    is the best looking Black for sure.
     
  18. man-a-fre
    Joined: Apr 13, 2005
    Posts: 1,311

    man-a-fre
    Member

  19. scootermcrad
    Joined: Sep 20, 2005
    Posts: 12,348

    scootermcrad
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Just for information sake... Has anyone ever laid down PPG Concept over another brand of primer and had issues? (assuming both primer and paint are applied correctly) If I used a top of the line "brand X" epoxy primer and sealed it and then laid the color down, how risky is it?

    Just as an added note, the PPG DPLF series epoxy primers were ALSO no longer available. I inquired about DP50LF (light gray) and he said it's no longer available. Again though, I assume that's in CA because it's for sale all over the internet.
     
  20. scootermcrad
    Joined: Sep 20, 2005
    Posts: 12,348

    scootermcrad
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Seriously, I would love to hear more from you California painters who have to deal with all this availability nightmare.

    I have friends and family in Vegas. I can go there if needed.
     
  21. Customs&Color
    Joined: Jan 16, 2009
    Posts: 105

    Customs&Color
    Member

    You could try HOK UB04, Jet set black. I called Coast Airbrush in Anaheim the other day and it was only $43/qt. I'm not sure about the whole VOC and california thing though, it might not be available there
     
  22. zjb69
    Joined: Jul 9, 2009
    Posts: 10

    zjb69
    Member

    it might be over kill on price but ive personaly used dupont imron5000, now the after the sticker shock sets in lit me tell you that the paint is very painter frindly its single stage and the gloss factor is almost unmatched. but once againg its spendy. and i live in oregon so our paint laws are diferent. i did the dash in my 37 bowtie pickup and i didnt even have to cut and buff it and it look like highly buffed laquer. and if your looking for something cheaper the imron 42p is still a decent single stage but no ware near as glossy
     
  23. bobkatrods
    Joined: Sep 22, 2008
    Posts: 666

    bobkatrods
    Member
    from aledo tx

    Check out spi products from georgia
     
  24. I second the Imron 5000. Very very durable also.

    kgdb
     
  25. carcrazyjohn
    Joined: Apr 16, 2008
    Posts: 4,844

    carcrazyjohn
    Member
    from trevose pa

    Centari 99 a Gloss black ,No brown or blue tint ,Black Its Enamel ,You even can buy it at ebay
     
  26. scootermcrad
    Joined: Sep 20, 2005
    Posts: 12,348

    scootermcrad
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Yeah! I've talked to a few people and they say GREAT things about SPI. I never talked to them about their paints though. I only talked to them about primers. I'll have to go back and look again.

    With regards to the Imron 5000, I've heard awesome stuff about it. Not sure I can actually get it here, though. I also heard it's even brushable and self-leveling. Is this true?
     
  27. scootermcrad
    Joined: Sep 20, 2005
    Posts: 12,348

    scootermcrad
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    You have my attention. Acrylic Enamel. Looks like the price is reasonable as well. Would like to hear more about it.

    Is this a discontinued product as well? I saw somewhere else on here that the reducer is no longer available. Hmmm...
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2010
  28. 1oldtimer
    Joined: Aug 21, 2003
    Posts: 7,676

    1oldtimer
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    you can't get acrylic enamel in california anymore, just acrylic urethane (from the paint shops). there was a guy at the pomona swapmeet that was selling delstar (ppg acrylic enamel), i bought a qt of blue and yellow for license plates. also urethane is harder then enamel.
     
  29. 56oldsDarrin
    Joined: May 9, 2009
    Posts: 396

    56oldsDarrin
    Member

    If you have used the concept (DCC) black, most other blacks will be disappointing.
    I'm a dupont guy, but even I'll admit DCC rocks, It will even resist brake fluid.
    Its been a while since I've been in a mixing room, but I remember one of the DCC toners
    was exactly the same as the jet black (DCC uses no binders) but it was way cheaper to buy a gallon of toner.
    Normally mixing black isn't as "black" as a factory black, but In the case of DCC it is.
    An old paint guy should know this, but I forgot the number.
    If they look up "Toyota super black" that should be mostly that toner.
    It might have said "high color black" on the label?
     
  30. 56oldsDarrin
    Joined: May 9, 2009
    Posts: 396

    56oldsDarrin
    Member

    See if they will sell you; PPG DMC 921 high color black, mix it like any other DCC color and spray.
     

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