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Technical Side to Side alignment issues

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by OrangeT, Jan 1, 2019.

  1. Kerrynzl
    Joined: Jun 20, 2010
    Posts: 2,284

    Kerrynzl
    Member

    With the car on stands [under the axles so the suspension is loaded] mark some centrelines in pencil at each end of the frame. Then use a builders square to mark them on the floor.
    Run a string line, or rule a centreline on the floor. Then use the square to measure everything possible.

    You need to determine where the offset is
    eg: between the bones, or hubs /wheels, or body mounted on the frame offset!
     
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  2. AngleDrive
    Joined: Mar 9, 2006
    Posts: 673

    AngleDrive
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Florida

    Sure needs some TLC under there
     
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  3. Atwater Mike
    Joined: May 31, 2002
    Posts: 9,700

    Atwater Mike
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Tape measure will find it. Eventually.

    I had a '41 Chev in my shop I installed an AMC rear axle in, centered the housing and welded new pads onto housing. Bolted it up, put 3rd member in, axles/brakes and wheels. Set car down and the right side tire was close to the fender, left side was 1.25" in! Measured everything 2, 3 times: my installation was perfect.
    After much confusion, discovered the car had been 'repaired', then the nice paint...
    Car had a 1946 fender on 1 side, and a '41 fender on the other!
    Owner wouldn't change the fender, so I put a custom wide offset wheel on the wide side, shallow offset on the other! (Sheesh...Some people! )
     
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  4. BamaMav
    Joined: Jun 19, 2011
    Posts: 3,254

    BamaMav
    Member
    from Berry, AL

    That could be like mine was, it was pulled to one side when I tied it down to the trailer and I didn't notice it until I put the wheels with more offset on. After I got the car off the trailer and drove it around a while, everything centered back up. If it has set up a while, rust will build in the springs and shackles and keep them from moving freely like they should. I think driving mine around rubbed enough rust off to free everything up, allowing it to go back in alignment. This may or may not apply to yours.
     
  5. OrangeT
    Joined: Jan 15, 2017
    Posts: 40

    OrangeT
    Member

    Jimmy has not had the car up on his lift yet. He is overbooked and is prepping 5 other cars for the GNRS. Right now it is at a shop in Santa Ana, CA that specializes in Jaguar and other european cars. Short of the rotors, the brake system will be new/rebuilt. Bert's European is also doing trans service, carb rebuild, window repair, lug bolt replacement, new master cylinder and more. Jimmy had hoped to look at it prior to the show but will not have the time. After the show we hope to schedule time at Shine Speedshop for a new wiring harness, adding another brake light and turn signals, fiberglass fender repair, interior, new steel wheels and paint touchup . . .

    When the car was on the lift today, the wheels/tires looked centered and the same distance in relation to the fenders. Monday I have to go pick up the Mico master cylinder from the shop and take it to ABS in Orange, CA for a master cylinder rebuild. I will do the measurements suggested by LOSTONE.

    Thank you all for the feedback and expert advice. I DO appreciate it!
     
  6. Happydaze
    Joined: Aug 21, 2009
    Posts: 778

    Happydaze
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Am I seeing a dead perch on the passenger side in place of the shackle?????? If so the game has changed somewhat!

    [​IMG]


    Chris
     
  7. Phil P
    Joined: Jan 1, 2018
    Posts: 140

    Phil P
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I know you mean drivers side:D. Phil
     
  8. Tim
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 9,798

    Tim
    Member
    from Raytown Mo

    I think the shackles are just on in different directions

    - to clarify the nuts on are the front on one side and the back on the other
     
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  9. Joe H
    Joined: Feb 10, 2008
    Posts: 752

    Joe H
    Member

    It could sure use some narrow rims or wider tires! I bet those were hard to air up first time.
     
  10. OrangeT
    Joined: Jan 15, 2017
    Posts: 40

    OrangeT
    Member

    Explain what a dead perch is please IMG_20190104_153308293.jpeg

    Sent from my XT1710-02 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  11. nugget32
    Joined: Aug 21, 2011
    Posts: 250

    nugget32

  12. upspirate
    Joined: Apr 15, 2012
    Posts: 1,983

    upspirate
    Member

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  13. upspirate
    Joined: Apr 15, 2012
    Posts: 1,983

    upspirate
    Member

    Almost posted a picture of dead fish, but trying to be positive in 2019
     
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  14. nugget32
    Joined: Aug 21, 2011
    Posts: 250

    nugget32

    funny

    Sent from my Chromebook 11 Model 3180 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
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  15. OrangeT
    Joined: Jan 15, 2017
    Posts: 40

    OrangeT
    Member

  16. jimvette59
    Joined: Apr 28, 2008
    Posts: 680

    jimvette59
    Member

    Take it apart clean it up and put it back together. Cut the threaded portions of the front u bolts. Check if the rear wheels have the same offset as the front wheels. JMHO
     
  17. oldolds
    Joined: Oct 18, 2010
    Posts: 2,724

    oldolds
    Member

    Is it just me or does the low point of the center of the front axle appear to be off to the drivers side in relation to the crank hole in the grille. The splash pan is bent so you can't use that as a reference.
     
  18. Kerrynzl
    Joined: Jun 20, 2010
    Posts: 2,284

    Kerrynzl
    Member

    It's the camera angle! with the lift post offset everything looks wrong. I can see the axle forgings having a different amount of drop on each side.

    To "Orange T"
    Put a trolley jack under the centre of the axle [with an inverted piece of angle on it] and jack it up and measure to see if there is a twist in the frame ,or sagging suspension at the end that's still on the ground.
    Do both ends.

    If there is a twist, or sagging suspension at one end, the shackles will try and equalize this [at the same time this shifts the axle sideways]
     
  19. ^^^^^ A bad spring can do the same thing. Stiff on one side loose on the other side?
     
  20. thirtytwo
    Joined: Dec 19, 2003
    Posts: 2,516

    thirtytwo
    Member

    Car doesn’t appear to have a panhard as I have also spotted an old mustang box in one of those pictures without a panhard sometimes it is possible for shackles to drift slightly side to side and stick if the bushings are bad or bound up

    The suggestion earlier to measure from frame is a good one, that should give you a reference point where to look before you measure first bounce on car and make sure shackles are same side to side.. go from there
     
  21. The front spring mounting assembly appears to be moved over to the passenger side. it is definitely out of position. Look at the zip tie, why would you install that an angle ? That could be the result of the axle shift. Is the spring center bolt snapped off ?
     
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  22. Happydaze
    Joined: Aug 21, 2009
    Posts: 778

    Happydaze
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    You got it, but it's still unclear, well to me, whether the shackle on the passenger side is in fact a dead perch or not. It could be a shackle with the fasteners on the rear side (unlike the driver side) but in the pic of the shackle on the drivers side it's not easy to tell whether they are nuts or the ends of swedged studs as some shackles are made (P&J I think for instance). I'm thinking dead perches have a plain side as this appears to be.

    Chris
     
  23. nugget32
    Joined: Aug 21, 2011
    Posts: 250

    nugget32

    The CL of the crank hole on the upper u-bolt plate is not aligned with the center of the bottom plate. the u-bolts are canted.


    Sent from my Chromebook 11 Model 3180 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  24. nugget32
    Joined: Aug 21, 2011
    Posts: 250

    nugget32

    I guess this means that the alignment bolt thru the spring is sheared off on the top and not protruding into the crossmember

    Sent from my Chromebook 11 Model 3180 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  25. OrangeT
    Joined: Jan 15, 2017
    Posts: 40

    OrangeT
    Member

    This car was neglected for many years. I spoke to Terry Peetris, former Winston Cup Driver, his dad bought the car in 1980 and had it for about 35 years. Terry said they did not drive it much as something always seemed to go wrong on it or was broken. What I have seen is this car was not maintained. When you go under the belly pan out back, you see paint stripped away in two straight lines behind the rotors. This tells me they had leaking calipers and they just kept adding more brake fluid. Before GNRS I will have new TRW calipers in back, rebuilt calipers up front, new pads all around, rebuilt Mico master cylinder, rebuilt Carter carb, fluids changed, new tires, and some cosmetic changes to make the car look like the pictures in Street Rodder. After the show I will have a shop remove the entire front end and rebuild it plus get Wheelsmith red steelies, a second set of tires, and possibly a rewire. Plus we would like to reinforce the seat mounts and get at least lap belts installed. Bit by bit I will get this car back to good shape.
     
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  26. OrangeT
    Joined: Jan 15, 2017
    Posts: 40

    OrangeT
    Member

    Tomorrow I need to pick up the master cylinder, I will check the center bolt for now. I do want to get that spring removed, cleaned up at re-wrapped.
     
  27. OrangeT
    Joined: Jan 15, 2017
    Posts: 40

    OrangeT
    Member

    I will look at the shackles tomorrow when I go to the shop
     
  28. OrangeT
    Joined: Jan 15, 2017
    Posts: 40

    OrangeT
    Member

    There are actually zip ties on each spring u-bolt, holding a wire loom
     
  29. OrangeT
    Joined: Jan 15, 2017
    Posts: 40

    OrangeT
    Member

    here are a couple pictures of the Jaguar rear end taken apart at the shop. If you zoom in under the belly pain you can see the lines where the brake fluid leak from the calipers and shout out the back damage in the belly pan paint. This is some of the neglect we see under car many people to look at this car everybody else passed on it because for them it was too much work. For me and I viewed it as an opportunity to bring this car back to Glory. I learned that to the owners including the gentleman who last owned it wanted to paint it black with flames. I'm so glad they were not able to do that. IMG_20190104_153840703.jpeg IMG_20190104_154656654.jpeg

    Sent from my XT1710-02 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
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  30. OrangeT
    Joined: Jan 15, 2017
    Posts: 40

    OrangeT
    Member

    It was hard to find a shop to mount the tires to those rims. Discount Tire is used by Chip Foose but Discount was clueless! Fortunately my mechanic that does my other cars can do that, and we used tubes as one of those Truspokes had a crack near the edge.
     

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