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Should we reproduce old speed equipment

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Cowtown Speed Shop, Jul 20, 2011.

  1. pinman 39
    Joined: Oct 9, 2008
    Posts: 520

    pinman 39
    Member

    Does copyright mean anything anymore. I haven't read the last 120 posts but has this issue been given any thought ? I find this topic interesting I am just bringing
    this point up I am not looking for a blast of from anyone .
     
  2. 1971BB427
    Joined: Mar 6, 2010
    Posts: 6,688

    1971BB427
    Member
    from Oregon

    I hope you do reproduce some of the good old speed equipment, and I hope you sell a ton of it! I love the original stuff, but most is beyond the average guy's price range, unless he's really addicted to it and can't stop himself from selling the kids! ;)
     
  3. nlualum82
    Joined: Dec 24, 2005
    Posts: 103

    nlualum82
    Member
    from Oregon

    A reasonable product might be a center cap to fit those old weld wheels, the ones that were threaded...
    My son lucked into a set of nice weld wheels for his '48 Chevy coupe. Loved them until he lost a cap.
    We started looking for a replacement and swap meet vendors would say, "no luck, but if you find one be ready to pay $75 for it!".
    It wouldn't have to be an illegal copy. Just a new cap as plain or fancy as you like that will fit those wheels.
    In my search I have seen quite a few of those wheels at giveaway prices because there was one missing cap. We got lucky, but there is a demand that would get much larger if suddenly you could get a set of caps cheaper than another set of wheels.
     
  4. Finding and buying an original, if not impossible, ain't cheap either! If ya can't build something yourself get your wallet out.
     
  5. I say reproduce wear items, the shit that breaks and renders your cool parts unusable.
    For instance Spaulding flamethrower parts.
    Some parts are only "so" cool because there are so few.

    They reproduce the harley shovel head style brake calipers- $250.00 each. (Fucking ridiculous $$$) That little part isn't very cool or a speed part but it For sure render the entire bike useless if you can't get it. And that's made in china.
     
  6. Ned Ludd
    Joined: May 15, 2009
    Posts: 4,218

    Ned Ludd
    Member

    When I opened the thread my first thought was to refer the OP to you! There is indeed a lot of new flexible technology which is bringing down production costs and in the process bringing down the volume threshold for viable production. It's getting easier and easier to make 20 of something, as opposed to 20 000.

    My instinct is to want to find that sweet spot between profitable volume and ubiquity, where you can be sure the product remains quite rare without pricing oneself out of the market. In that sort of approach I'd incline towards stuff in a traditional idiom, but that never was; and moreover offers a solid performance advantage.

    Off the top of my head: 2½" SU carbs? triple-(or quadruple?-)leading-shoe ventilated drum brakes? five-main flathead block?

    How about liquid-to-air intercoolers that look something like '30s horizontal-cylindrical-type AC etc. air cleaners? It opens up all kinds of possibilities for sneaky turbo installs.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2013
  7. Ned Ludd
    Joined: May 15, 2009
    Posts: 4,218

    Ned Ludd
    Member

    Copyright in vehicle parts is a bit unusual, due to two rulings, British Leyland Motor Corp. v. Armstrong Patents Co in the UK and Aro Mfg. Co. v. Convertible Top Replacement Co. in the USA. The upshot is that one's right to make a part that replaces another part is pretty much accepted, as long as there is no suggestion of misrepresentation. In this "intellectual property" is pared back to its original intention, i.e. to protect a manufacturer's reputation from the effects of misrepresentation -in this context. The subsequent conception (some say perversion) of intellectual property as bankable privilege is excluded.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2013
  8. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 9,494

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    Patents only last 17 years but copyright and trademarks can go on indefinitely. So label your parts plainly with a completely different name than original.

    Incidentally the Ford Motor Company once sued a man named Ford for putting his name on his product, chewing gum. The courts decided there was so much difference between an automobile and piece of gum that there was no danger of the public mistaking one for the other. I remember Ford gumballs in vending machines when I was a kid.
     
  9. sure do it! if people don't have a problem with Brookville, the ultimate repop kings then they shouldn't have a problem with other repop stuff. Charlie Price is repopping Edmunds and they are still bringing good money. go for it!
     
  10. nlualum82
    Joined: Dec 24, 2005
    Posts: 103

    nlualum82
    Member
    from Oregon

    I would certainly like to see intake manifolds and other speed parts for my Mercruiser 120/Chevy 153.
    They were popular racing engines at one time but all the go-fast/look cool stuff is out of production and almost non-existent on the used market.
    There is a renewed and growing interest in the 120 and 140. I decided on one for my project after searching them and coming up with so many threads on lots of sites.
    Not as big a market as a sbc product...but no competition! I would anticipate more Mercruiser rods if there were aftermarket parts available...and gas aint gettin'any cheaper!
     
  11. It sounds cool, but is it possible?
     
  12. N8B
    Joined: Sep 28, 2009
    Posts: 476

    N8B
    Member

    I own some special patterns and I am asked this question all the time by folks asking me to have them re cast.
    It is still something I ask myself. I have had them for 4 -5 years now and still on the fence about doing anything with them for several reason.
    1 - I own the casting patterns BUT I don't own the name or rights to the name.
    2 - Assurance of a quality American made product within a reasonable price range.
    3 - The product is still being made by a newer rendition of the original company and a few other companies making similar versions.
    4 - I am not sure they should be "re popped".

    I have the opportunity but even I don't have the right answers.

    N8
     
  13. Copyright doesn't enter into it and never has. The printing on the box that the parts came in may have been copyrighted but if the company went by the way side many years ago then even the printed material doesn't matter. Copyright does not pertain to any sand cast aluminum part unless it's a work of art and then it can be copyrighted. I have ninety six copyrights relating to works of art. A pattent on an invention is for seventeen years so if your talking about a product from the 50's the patten ran out years ago; again if the company isn't around any longer and hasn't been doing buisness then the part can be reproduced. Trademarks if in force can't be used but if they ran out you can get the trade mark in your name and use it. Look what they did with many of the old singers from the 50's and 60's when their trademarks names ran out. Do a trademark search an you will find that many of the old names like Fenton, Arden and some of the others that have been gone for a long time have no trademarks. Every time a thread like this comes up I could scream because most people think that using many of these names is breaking some law.
    I had thought about makeing some old parts and even a few that would be different and back in the day were never made. If I was to go in this direction I would first trademark all the old names that I would be using. I have a background making patterns for the sand casting industry and spent many an hour molding and pouring aluminum back when I was in Engineering school just so that I could get through. I even had a small foundry back in the early 70's and we made a lot of our own parts for our racing hydroplanes. You would be surprised if a guy did such a project as this when it came time to sell parts. I would say that very few sales would come from the HAMB members.
    As far as having to change a part to make it different you do not have to. You can build the old part from the 50's exactly the same and you have not broken any law. Some of this stuff is very easy to make if you have a background in it. As one of the gentleman posted that works in the sand casting trade. They are using the new 3D printers to make the patterns. Yes you have to figure in the shrinkage allowances. If a guy had a small foundry and a 3D printer along with a milling machine he could do some very interesting work.
    One last thing; I have made countless silicone molds off original parts and then reproduced the part in a pourable plastic and the parts have passed for originals. This same process could be used along with the 3D printer to make patterns for the sand castings. The cost would be minimal if it was a part time thing working at nights and weekends. Once the casting was cleaned up it could be machined using the milling machine. I'm rambling but reproduction parts is possible.
    Johnny Sweet
     
  14. Ned Ludd
    Joined: May 15, 2009
    Posts: 4,218

    Ned Ludd
    Member

    Precisely. Copyrights and patents are about being able to prevent someone from making something. Trademarks are about preventing someone from misrepresenting the origin of something (though that too is open to abuse in this age of out-sourced manufacturing.)

    The nice thing about 3D printing is that scale changes can be done very easily to the electronic model. This makes any fine-tuning around shrinkage a lot simpler than having to hand-make a pattern every time. Take a look at Dzuari's threads, especially this one, which shows how easy it is to create patterns for the same thing in a range of different sizes.
     
  15. Bert Kollar
    Joined: Jan 10, 2007
    Posts: 1,010

    Bert Kollar
    Member

    They reproduce the cars, why not the parts
     
  16. Roger Walling
    Joined: Sep 26, 2010
    Posts: 1,149

    Roger Walling
    Member

    If you reproduce the parts and they are perfect copies that no one can tell apart, and make them cheap, everyone will but them, and then they will be so common that no one will want them!
     
  17. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,341

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    depends on why people want them...
     
  18. RoadsterRod1930
    Joined: Jun 15, 2005
    Posts: 414

    RoadsterRod1930
    Member

    NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO why does everything have to be reproduced...I mean damn. well fugg it lets all have belly button this belly button that. pretty soon every hot rod is gonna be a 69 Camaro soon
     
  19. i say why not?
     
  20. bt34
    Joined: Dec 22, 2006
    Posts: 286

    bt34
    Member

    Tis no different to repops of 32 Ford roadster body's or whatever, tin/glass...
    That way we all can use & enjoy.
    The pureist (?) will always have the original anyways...
     
  21. That's your opinion! and I haven't go the slightest idea what the hell your talking about. "pretty soon every Hot Rod is gonna be a 69 Camaro"? What world are you living in!
     
  22. modeleh
    Joined: Oct 29, 2009
    Posts: 380

    modeleh
    Member

    He means something along the lines of a 69 camaro can be completely constructed from off the shelf repro parts, it is the ultimate dream car for many guys. There are alot of people in this world that want something the same as others might have. Lots of copycats.
    I think the majority of people that frequent this site prefer to have something a little different than everyone else at the local show and shine.
     
  23. Deuces
    Joined: Nov 3, 2009
    Posts: 19,955

    Deuces
    Member
    from Michigan

    I owned 4 in a passed life.... I wouldn't mind another..:eek:
     

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