Recently bought a 78 Merc Cougar for small change to get the 351 Cleveland for my coupe. The Cougar was almost a give-a-way because the C6 tranny slips and/or takes forever to shift into second --- you have to barely give it any throttle until it gets up to a speed (around 30 MPH) where it decides to go ahead and do the shift. Once up to speed and fully shifted, it drives normal. I am thinking about maybe putting a 4 speed manual tranny behind the Cleveland before I put it in my coupe, but because the C6 automatic had been rebuilt only a year before the shifting (or slippage) problem developed [according to the prior owner], I am wondering if it could be something as simple as a bad vacuum modulator that is causing the problem. Any suggestions for diagnosing whether it is a vacuum thing versus a wornout tranny? Should I just consider the C6 junk and go to a 4-speed manual transmission? The manual conversion is a fair amount of work, but I can go manual better now than later because of the stage I am in with the project. Opinions please?
usually those are tough as hell- Id have it looked at and keep it.toploaders and stick stuff for fords are high dollar sumbitch's.........
I would keep the c6 and ditch the 4 speed but it's whatever your personal preference is. The C6 with Cleveland bolt pattern would be worth keeping.
I agree with Root and Choprods. I get my trannys rebuilt for 175 bucks from a local guy. 5 year guarantee. If you go for the 4 speed, you are looking atleast 800 bucks between the back of the block and the front of the tranny. Flywheels/bellhousings for Fords are huge dollar. Plus, a clutch, pressure plate, throwout, hyd clutch cyl or trapeeze brackets, shifter, yada, yada, yada. Not to mention the over-developed clutch leg syndrome... Call me a pussy, but I LOVE my automatics. -Abone.
If ya have a C-6 They are near bullet prof. My question is what make you think its a C-6? Most 78 cougars had C-3 C-4 or FMX. None had 351 clevelands.Many had 351/400 modifieds and some had 351 winsors. Cal
Are you sure that motor is not a 351M/400 with an FMX? I've never seen an actual Cleveland in a Cougar newer than '76. My '79 Cougar is a 351M/400 with an FMX. After owning many 77-79 Cougars and Thunderbirds, I've never had one with a C-6. All either had C-4's or FMX's. On the door jamb, what is the code in the "Trans" box?
MercMan's right...unless someone swapped a Cleveland/C6 combo into your Cougar, it has a 351M. The differences are subtle to the untrained eye, but a 351/400M will use 429/460 motor mounts and bellhousing pattern, and the "M" engines will lack a "2" or a "4" casting on the heads near the upper lefthand corner of the valve cover. Some internal differences, but that's how to tell from the outside quickly.
I guess anything is possible, and I am certainly not an expert, but the guy I bought the Cougar from had owned it since new (well, between him and his brother), and he was insistent that it was a Cleveland engine with a C6. I asked about putting a C4 behind the engine, and he said it would never hold up. Looks like I have some checking to do. I don't know much about Ford engines once they get any newer than the 8BA Flatty. So I've got to look on the heads to see if there is a 2 or 4 in the upper left hand corner, huh? Any other ways to verify what it is for those not familiar with this vintage of Ford?
A C4 will hold up if you pick the right one and do the right things to it. And they are hella easy to rebuild. You can do it if you can rebuild a motor.
I'm pretty sure you have a 351M/400, which is a smog-era version of the popular Cleveland. It was never a performance oriented motor, but it found it's way into MANY Mercurys, Lincolns & Broncos and Full-sized trucks. Lots of people who have them call them "Clevelands" - they're right, but they're not to ones most car guys think of when you say Cleveland. Stock, it makes about 165 HP and about 250 lb ft of torque. Performance parts are becoming more redily available. They're good engines, and can be made to make a lot of horsepower and torque, but the prices to do it will be comperable to building a big block Chevy or Ford, which is why they haven't been popular. Basically, the engine can't breathe, and lots of head work needs to be done. Check this site out for more info: http://home.earthlink.net/~bubbaf250/index.html Needing a powerplant that had enough torque to get Ford's big Lincolns and Mercurys moving, while still meeting the Fed's guidelines for emissions and fuel economy in the mid-70's led Ford to develop this engine. It was a short run, I believe they were only produced from '77-79 for cars, and up till '82 in trucks. I believe Ford took a 400 Block and put on a 351 crank and heads. It became a bastardized, de-stroked 400 engine, and confused a lot of people when it came out. An interresting side note about them: although Lincoln maintained all their giant cars in 1979 that were identical to the 78's, the 460 was no longer available in any of them. The biggest engine you could get was the original standard engine from the previous year, the 351M. Look on the valve cover sticker, under engine family it will show "351M/400". On the door jamb sticker, under "Trans" it will show a "U" if it's a C-6, but I'll bet it shows an "X" for FMX. There's no way to tell the engine from the vin, on Cougars, the "H" is the code for the engine but could apply to either 351, the Windsor or the M motor.
Mercman is right about the motor trany combo however you never know wnat's been changed. Here is an easy way to tell if you have a C-6. The trans case is one solid piece with bell housing. C-4 and FMX have a bolt on bell housing. C-4 all 3 pieces are aluminum and the F.M.X. has a cast iron gear case. The Wizzard
I beleive it to be a M motor as well, Clevelands were only made for like 3 years. I have seen some pro stocker type cars running 460/C4 combos too. If it really is a Cleveland & C-6, I would think even with a new rebuilt trany you would dollors ahead..like everyone said the stick shift stuff cost lots more..
Last week guy offered me a bell housing,flywheel, clutch disk, clutch plate and the linkage for the clutch fork (all supposedly for 351 Cleveland) for $75. That seemed pretty reasonable. I haven't bought it yet, and won't until I determine whether the engine is a Cleveland, but so far the costs don't look that high. Thanks for everybodys' input. I'll look closer at the engine & trans to verify what they are.
Maybay my location but not that high dollar in my parts.I have a 351 civeland with 4 speed closed chamber 4 Br heads shifter MT valve covers 750Holly ive been trying to get 1000 bucks for and thay arnt beating a path to my door.4 speed is the way to go imho.
did you check the band adjustment? a freind of mine had a c-6 rebuilt and the rebuilder failed to tighten the locknut on the adjustment stud .the adjustment is to tighten the stud to 10 ft-lbs then back off 1 (one) full turn then hold the stud and tighten the lock nut to 35 ft-lbs. skull
[ QUOTE ] I've never seen an actual Cleveland in a Cougar newer than '76. [/ QUOTE ] That's cuz Ford only made the Clevelands from 70-74!! [ QUOTE ] Any other ways to verify what it is for those not familiar with this vintage of Ford? [/ QUOTE ] If you can see the top two bellhousing bolts - if they're about 5" apart, it's a 351W (or transplanted 351C), if they're closer to 7" apart, it's a 351M/400 POS. If it's original as the owner says, I can almost guarantee 351M/FMX... Good Luck!
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