I have been researching this for what seems like two years. I am building a 1931 AV8. Closed drive line, 1937 transmission. I want a mechanical fan. I also want to use the generator in stock location. I have a 1952 ford flathead, from a car, that is a good running engine. I was planning on installing this in my build using the angled water pumps. This is the two belt narrow pulley system. I recently bought a 1951 Mercury flathead that needs a rebuild. If it tests positive from the motor builder. This is a two belt narrow pulley system. I do have the mount spacers/risers. I cannot compare them as i dont have all the components of each motor. I am trying to find out what set up will give me the shortest distance from the fan to the rear of the motor. I have read a lot about truck pumps and pulleys, but also read about mercury narrow pumps and pulleys being just as short. Can anyone help me out with this? I have two blocks which are the same size and want to figure out the shortest set up. I appreciate any help on this. I am a slow learner. I found this info helpful from the link below: https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/id-flathead-please.646465/#post-7170147 POST #6 All '48-'53 trucks, and '49 Ford and Mercury cars used the same wide belt system, only with different style water pumps. Ford and Merc cars used narrow belts starting in '50. '48-'52 truck pumps have the lower mounting ear, and are the same. '49 Ford cars and '53 trucks use the same basic wide-belt pump with the angled lower casting, but the trucks used a new center front engine mount, so the pumps were not drilled for frame mounts like the cars used. '50-'53 Ford car and '52-'53 Mercury used the same narrow-belt pumps with the angled casting. '49 to '51 Mercurys used a pump similar to the '48-'52 trucks, but with a higher mounting ear, and were narrow-belt starting in '50. Wide belt pumps have the same pulley offset, as one belt runs both pumps, along with the generator. Narrow belt pumps have different pulley offsets so the belts can cross each other, as one belt runs one pump, along with either a fan or generator. I also found this: https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/water-pumps-for-8cm.1157083/
I just posted this in a different persons thread. My '29 AV8 Tudor (Avatar) has a 59ab with wide belts with 2nd belt to the fan. It has the radiator moved forward 1 1/2". Been that way since 1958. Not how I would of done it. My '32 Sedan has an 8BA with truck wide belt pumps and a single crank pulley and uses a 1939 2 brush generator with fan mounted to it with generator mounted in an 8BA generator bracket. I removed the pin so it could be adjusted fore and aft. Works great. Dave
dwollam thanks for the reply. but what year parts for the following? -truck wide belt pumps -and a single crank pulley a
Your best bet is a truck set up with one belt and a fan on the generator, it is about as short as you will get, but it still sticks out and you will need to nudge the radiator forward using custom made brackets at the radiator mounts. An earlier set of single belt pumps and early distributor will save even more space, but that requires a camshaft change to drive the early distributor, see the best pictures I have below, I had no room for a mech fan due to the heavy channel of the body.
8ba truck pumps. they were wide belt except maybe the '53. So '49-'52(3). Had my son in law turn the extra pulley off the regular wide belt 8ba crank pulley. Dave
I believe someone used to make/reproduce a narrow belt (8ba) generator pulley that integrated a pre '39 fan mount. Basically a hybrid 8ba generator pulley that you could bolt up a fan. Perfect part for an 8ba in an AV8.
My '31 Tudor AV8 is still in the works, but... '37 21-stud with a late crab-style distributor, early Offy 2x3 intake with generator in stock location. AND everything fits between stock firewall and stock radiator location. I will have to trim the fan blades a bit to clear the filler neck.
Glenn, Would you happen to know if these are still available? I know Jim @ Antique Auto is trying to sell parts again, but he was tough to get a hold of when the business was operating
Sorry, I don't know if they are. This was the only company I could find at the time, a long while ago. Works great for me.
This has been covered quite a few times, so I'll be a bit brief here: 1) The shortest possible setup involves switching the front of the later 49-53 engine to utilize the earlier 37-48 components. You make the front of the engine look like a 59AB style engine - this is the main goal of the following. As you can see in the picture above (with the 21 stud engine) - everything will fit with the radiator in the stock location . . . which also means a stock hood can be used. 2) The Distributor Issue: The component that really makes a difference is the fact that on 32 - 48 engines the distributor mounted off of the timing cover - which allows the fan belt to be very close to the block. Once they moved the distributor in 1949 to be a "side mount", then the fan belts had to be moved forward to account for this. 3) Parts Needed (there are multiple options, this is what I'd use). a) Timing Cover: Early 2-bolt timing cover for a crab style distributor b) Front Mount Distributor: Crab Style 2-bolt distributor c) Early 42 - 48 Camshaft: This is a camshaft that is used with the front-mount crab-style distributor. This is the part that gives folks the most trouble - as it requires taking the engine apart (pulling the heads and valvetrain) and installing a new cam. Some folks will modify the cam that is in the 49-53 engine (cutting the snout off and putting the T-slot in it) - most will just install an earlier cam. If you modify the current 49-53 cam, then all the other valve components can most likely be reused (if they are in good shape). My recommendation: When you do all of this, you might as well have a valve-job done, you'll need new lifters, maybe an upgraded cam profile, etc.. d) Crank/Cam Gears: You also use the earlier crank and cam gears - as the thrust is toward the block. They changed this in 1949 and changed the thrust toward the timing cover. As you'll have the cam out anyway, this is not a big deal - but must be done. e) Water Pumps: 1937-1948 single side belt pumps f) Crankshaft pulley: You'll need a single wide-belt crankshaft pulley. g) Generator: Generator that mounts a fan in the front of it - similar to what was shown above. The fan needs to be a short one - like a 34 fan. The above configuration will give you the best possible setup - though the cam swap can make this a bit more difficult. It really isn't a big deal, but it does require taking the whole engine apart. If you're taking the engine apart for the cam swap, I would go ahead with at least a valve job -- and maybe consider an overall "freshen up" or rebuild of the engine. There yah have it! B&S
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