Register now to get rid of these ads!

History Shivel-Lay question from a FoMoCo guy.....

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by 6sally6, Mar 27, 2020.

  1. 51504bat
    Joined: May 22, 2010
    Posts: 1,743

    51504bat
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Years ago when I was in Jr. High (about 55 years ago) and just getting into all things mechanical I remember reading an article in IIRC Motor Trend. It was by a classic brass era car judge who was complaining about all the 100% original restorers who choose originality over common sense or worse yet safety. His response was to create a best lubricated chassis award and trophy. Point is that anal restorers have been around long before the Corvette, Mustang, or Mopar guys began agonizing over the proper placement of factory chalk marks under the hood.
     
  2. s55mercury66
    Joined: Jul 6, 2009
    Posts: 3,980

    s55mercury66
    Member
    from SW Wyoming

    "Yessir, numbers matching and date code correct, with proper valve caps and wheel weights, and the large 'GE' stamped 1157 bulbs that were only used briefly...."
     
    Driver50x and tractorguy like this.
  3. rpm56
    Joined: Nov 29, 2013
    Posts: 59

    rpm56
    Member

    We may not SEE you in one, but we're keeping track of you.
     
  4. blowby
    Joined: Dec 27, 2012
    Posts: 6,498

    blowby
    Member
    from Nicasio Ca

    What is a 'Shivel'?
     
  5. Deuces
    Joined: Nov 3, 2009
    Posts: 18,476

    Deuces
    Member
    from Michigan

    Chevy..... :D
     
  6. That might be dangerous for you. Once you drive a hot rod powered by a Big Block Chevrolet you may never want to touch a Phord again!
     
  7. This. One of the problems with muscle cars is there is always some "paint slash jackass" walking through the show looking at vin numbers through the windshield and spouting off that this or that ain't correct. The same with historic older cars. I have no interest in being the guy that has to preserve somebody else's history. I want to be free to make my own decisions on my build. There is something liberating about a Corvette with a blower or a Tri-5 with a BBC. They kind of cut the "numbers" guys off at the knees right from the get go. Lol
     
  8. A Corvette replacement motor from GM has two sets of numbers, the number from the factory which has a star on both ends and the number from the car that it goes into. At least that is how the factory replacement motor was that we put in a '71 small block car when it was being restored.

    I got an idea that whomever was or is selling you the vette is strokin ya. They have been align boring motors since I was little (late '50s and '60s) and I imagine before that.
     
    saltracer219, Deuces and tractorguy like this.
  9. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 3,377

    Budget36
    Member



    I didn't really know, tis why I asked the question. All I recall was the L88 was a big HP engine.

    Thanks!
     
    Deuces and j-jock like this.
  10. I would love to have one. According to GM, there were only 216 Corvettes that came from the factory with the engine installed.
    It was race ready right out of the box, listed with an output of 550 hp.
    The parts were readily available for any person to put one together. Dealers, like Nickey, who specialized in Chevrolet performance, put out catalogues that listed all the components, so all it took was cash to make any four bolt big block into a sudo L88. The value of the true L88 engine made it worthwhile for scam artists to make up clones, and claim they were factory engines, but even if it was re-stamped, it did not take a lot of checking to determine if the engine was a fake.
    I love Chevy big blocks, and have been running one or more continuously since 1971, but that never stopped me from loving my FE powered cars. I am egalitarian. The only engines I have never owned or run, were MOPARS, and that was only because I stuck with what I knew. I am still pissed, because back in the 80s, I missed out on a dual quad 426 hemi, because I didn't have a project for it.
    Bob
     
  11. Just a thought. With all of the guys out there claiming they have Corvette motors I wonder, if you take the engine out of a pickup truck, bolt it into a Corvette, and then later use it in another build, does it become a Corvette motor? :)
    I kid...
     
    Deuces and tractorguy like this.
  12. sliceddeuce
    Joined: Aug 15, 2017
    Posts: 2,982

    sliceddeuce
    Member

    You Sir, Are correct. Bravo.
     
    Deuces likes this.
  13. tractorguy
    Joined: Jan 5, 2008
    Posts: 633

    tractorguy
    Member

    I plead GUILTY......When I started with Chevrolet Division of GM in the mid 70's thru early 80's I was a field rep. calling on dealers. I had to make the decision to repair or replace engines under warranty in everything from Vegas to medium duty trucks. Since I built a lot of engines just out of high school for our dirt track cars, I always tried to err on the side of line boring.....cylinder boring.....etc. I just couldn't bring myself to scrap usable blocks, heads etc. But.....when the time did come to put one out of it's misery......I was held accountable by my boss to damage the block beyond use.....large sledge hammer to the water jacket side of the block .
     
    Truckdoctor Andy likes this.
  14. 427 sleeper
    Joined: Mar 8, 2017
    Posts: 952

    427 sleeper
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I think the iron head L-88 misconception comes from the 20 '67 Corvette's that were produced. They all had aluminum heads and valvecovers painted orange. 1968 saw them with raw aluminum heads and orange valvecovers. 1969 they had raw aluminum open chamber heads and chrome valvecovers. The L-71 and L-78's could be ordered with RPO L-89 aluminum heads, I can't find any info about the L-72's with aluminum heads though. Closed chamber heads in '67&8, Open chamber in '69 on 427's, 396's were all closed chamber. This is all according to Alan Colvin's book, Chevy by the Number's.
    As far as number's matching goes... Once a car has been repaired or modified to a point that the ORIGINAL to that specific vehicle, date coded and assembly line stamped driveline parts are no longer a part of that vehicle, it is no longer a numbers matching car! If you don't have the original piece's to the "puzzle", it doesn't match. You could have an original 427/430 L-88 from a '67 Vette sitting under your workbench in your shop, but if you don't have the car that it came out of, it's just another bad ass big block for a "someday" project. Vice versa, if you have an original L-88 car that the engine has long been destroyed, but knowingly restamp a similar block to match your need's, that's Fraud, and that person should be hung by his nutsack and beaten! It's a double edged sword. They're only number's matching if they remain as produced, weather original or restored. Sorry for the rant, this number's matching shit just kinda' hits a nerve with me. Sometimes it makes me laugh, sometimes it pisses me off! I'm GLAD I don't worry about it with my junk though! :D JMHO.
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2020
  15. RmK57
    Joined: Dec 31, 2008
    Posts: 1,429

    RmK57
    Member

    I dont know much about GM products but do the hi-perf cars come with a VIN or partial VIN stamped on the block?
     
    Deuces and 427 sleeper like this.
  16. s55mercury66
    Joined: Jul 6, 2009
    Posts: 3,980

    s55mercury66
    Member
    from SW Wyoming

    Bravo! I get so sick of the "alternative facts" that get put out concerning this.
     
    b-body-bob, Deuces and 427 sleeper like this.
  17. 427 sleeper
    Joined: Mar 8, 2017
    Posts: 952

    427 sleeper
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    As far as I know, yes.
     
    Deuces likes this.
  18. southcross2631
    Joined: Jan 20, 2013
    Posts: 3,666

    southcross2631
    Member

    I came home from overseas in 1974 . My poor old matching numbered 69 396-375 had been raced blown up bored out twice and when it spun a main the last time I drove it. I went to the local Chevy dealer in Colorado Springs and plunked down a whopping $780.00 for a brand new crate 427 ZLX. A iron copy of the famous ZL-1
    I took my heads and intake off the 396 and saved them and threw the block in the scrap engine pile in the back of the shop.
    So much for matching numbers. wish I would have hung on to it.
     
    Deuces and 427 sleeper like this.
  19. Your reply made me curious, and prompted me to look through my old stuff to see if I could find any more information on the RPO numbers. I found a book, called "How to Hot Rod Big Block Chevs", and at the rear of the book, I found a listing describing the RPO numbers for the big block.
    We have pretty much covered everything, but the book states that the L71 engine was rated at 425/435 hp, and the difference between the L72 and the L71, was the the triple two barrel manifold. The heads could be iron or aluminum, and the later heads were open chamber.
    I agree, that the numbers don't matter, unless the person is an investor rather than a hot rodder. All I ever wanted, was mind bending horsepower, and not having to worry about breaking a numbers matching engine. I never thought the day would come when a fun ride would cost 6 figures or more.
    Bob
     
    Deuces and 427 sleeper like this.
  20. 427 sleeper
    Joined: Mar 8, 2017
    Posts: 952

    427 sleeper
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    The L-72 could very well have been avaliable with the L-89 option, I just couldn't find any info in my book. I have found, though, some of the older publications are sometimes incorrect, whereas Colvin's info is taken direct from Chevrolet's document's, Blueprint's, and Service Bulliten's. That's niether here nor there, though. Unless we were THERE, God only know's what REALLY rolled off the line back then! ;)
     
    Deuces likes this.
  21. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 3,377

    Budget36
    Member


    Dunno, but my dad pulled an engine from a Corvette and put in his '57 PU, what does that make it;)
     
    Deuces and 427 sleeper like this.
  22. 427 sleeper
    Joined: Mar 8, 2017
    Posts: 952

    427 sleeper
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    FAST!!! :cool:
     
    Deuces, j-jock and Budget36 like this.
  23. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 3,377

    Budget36
    Member


    Lol...not by today's standards, but filled my tank many a time;)
     
    Deuces and 427 sleeper like this.
  24. town sedan
    Joined: Aug 18, 2011
    Posts: 1,290

    town sedan
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    The beauty of a "numbers matching" GM car is that until the early 70's the GM vin only told you if the vehicle came with a 4, 6 or 8 cylinder engine. With the right casting numbers and date codes you're half way there to a numbers matching machine. Ford and I believe Mopar vin's too, actually the vehicles serial number makes it harder since it'll tell you which engine was factory installed.
    -Dave
     
  25. I only sat down to special order a new Corvette once, in 1967, and remember that for the big blocks that I was looking at, there were other added cost options within the basic L71 designation. The basic L71 435 hp was, 3x2s and iron heads.
    The cost of the L88 option in Canada, was was so far beyond reasonable, that I never considered it.
    Now, I wish I would have acquired a copy of the form, but back then, there weren't any copiers, and I don't remember getting a duplicate of the order sheet. At any rate, I never got a copy of the sheet.
    Bob
     
    Deuces, 427 sleeper and town sedan like this.
  26. 427 sleeper
    Joined: Mar 8, 2017
    Posts: 952

    427 sleeper
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    That's why GM started stamping partial VIN's on the front pad of the higher performance cars in the 60's.
     
    Deuces likes this.
  27. 427 sleeper
    Joined: Mar 8, 2017
    Posts: 952

    427 sleeper
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Lol! The price for an L-88 was ridiculous EVERYWHERE! That's why only 20 of them were built in '67. ;) They were far from "Civilian car's"!
     
    Deuces likes this.
  28. 427 sleeper
    Joined: Mar 8, 2017
    Posts: 952

    427 sleeper
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    If we could go back in time, would you order the L-88? I know I would! :D
     
    Deuces likes this.
  29. Oh, hell yes!
    Bob
     
    Deuces and 427 sleeper like this.
  30. jimmy six
    Joined: Mar 21, 2006
    Posts: 6,170

    jimmy six
    Member

    I'd be ordering a Chevyll post with a L-79. Radio/heater delete.
     
    tractorguy and 427 sleeper like this.

Share This Page

Register now to get rid of these ads!

Archive

Copyright © 1995-2020 The Jalopy Journal: Steal our stuff, we'll kick your teeth in. Terms of Service. Privacy Policy.

Atomic Industry
Forum software by XenForo™ ©2010-2014 XenForo Ltd.