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History Shivel-Lay question from a FoMoCo guy.....

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by 6sally6, Mar 27, 2020.

  1. 6sally6
    Joined: Feb 16, 2014
    Posts: 1,072

    6sally6
    Member

    Talked to a fellas the other day on the phone about a 60-something Corvette......427 (390 HP) 4-speed both tops 3.55:1 gear. 60-something thousand original miles.....original convert top....original spare..one re-paint.
    Here's the question, back when it was still new(ish) it spun a bearing! They didn't know how to align-bore blocks so the block was replaced with all the original heads & guts. Would this 'still' be called a numbers matching car......even though the block was replaced?(for those that think that's important)
    thanx
    6sally6
     
    chryslerfan55 likes this.
  2. 302GMC
    Joined: Dec 15, 2005
    Posts: 6,105

    302GMC
    Member
    from Idaho

    Not to a restorer ...
     
  3. finn
    Joined: Jan 25, 2006
    Posts: 673

    finn
    Member

  4. BJR
    Joined: Mar 11, 2005
    Posts: 6,307

    BJR
    Member

    Corvette restorers are a crazy nuts bunch of people. The bolts must have the correct stamping on the bolt heads, the fasteners that hold the chrome trim on must have the correct washers , etc, the fing gas cap must be the same as sold.
    Get the picture?
     
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  5. Absolutely not, the corvette guys will critique the casting numbers, stamped numbers, date codes for weeks. A guy like me, on the other hand would be quite happy with a “period correct” replacement motor. Hell even an entirely non correct motor as long as it was HOT!
     
  6. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 3,391

    Budget36
    Member

    No, and I think it was a LS5 427, my 454 (from '70) is an LS5 w/390 HP, I have an old contact if you want an older restoration on a '6x Vette, with M2? 427 engine that is numbers matching (see what I did there?). I bet the car could be bought in the mid 20's if she still has it.
     
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  7. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 45,765

    squirrel
    Member

    well...maybe an L-36, instead?

    It stopped being a number matching car when they got rid of the original engine. Which means it's worth less than it could be, and would be a lot of fun to own.
     
  8. rustydusty
    Joined: Apr 19, 2010
    Posts: 1,516

    rustydusty
    Member

    The best thing about this is that you could do anything you want to it and not be destroying a numbers matching car.

    Can you say: "Corvette gasser"??
     
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  9. slowmotion
    Joined: Nov 21, 2011
    Posts: 3,185

    slowmotion
    Member

    Are u kiddin'? The Vette police deduct points for non-original air in the tires!
     
  10. We're talking about Corvette restorers right? What many of them would do is restamp the replacement block and then run it through the auction as "numbers matching". Sad state of affairs but unfortunately true.
     
  11. 6t4
    Joined: Jan 3, 2010
    Posts: 28

    6t4
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Ohio

    That cylinder case has two important numbers on it for the numbers matching crowd. The casting date of the case and the engine pad stamping. This assumes the cylinder case has the correct casting part number.The stamping pad has a VIN number as well as an engine assembly date. The cast date had to proceed the engine assembly date which has to proceed the car assembly date... else something’s fishy. A NCRS top flight car can reach top flight with a blank stamp pad as long as casting number and cast date are correct. The marketplace puts a premium on a match number block from $10k to $60k base motor to big block. Many big block top flight cars have restamped blocks.....no records from Chevrolet exist and many small blocks are now 435 hp cars today.

    Everybody defines numbers matching a bit different, the one that’s hard to argue is born again drivetrain.... engine trans and rear end.. all castings and dates and stamps align. 1967 is only year with build sheet glued to gas tank but they get reproduced and fakes as well.

    Caveat emptor!!!!!


    Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
     
  12. blowby
    Joined: Dec 27, 2012
    Posts: 6,505

    blowby
    Member
    from Nicasio Ca

    They didn't know how to align bore in the '60s?
     
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  13. BJR
    Joined: Mar 11, 2005
    Posts: 6,307

    BJR
    Member

    true
     
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  14. oldolds
    Joined: Oct 18, 2010
    Posts: 2,954

    oldolds
    Member

    Cheaper and quicker to throw in the short block than rebuild. If there is original paperwork stating it was done under warranty the Corvette snobs will usually give it an ok.
     
  15. I think it needs a blower and fender flares!:D
     
  16. RmK57
    Joined: Dec 31, 2008
    Posts: 1,441

    RmK57
    Member

    A real help would be the paperwork for the replacement block from the dealership. Like most restorations no matter what brand paperwork is so important.
     
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  17. A 2 B
    Joined: Dec 2, 2015
    Posts: 108

    A 2 B

    No matter how the seller spins it, (no pun intended) the value is affected drastically. This is a question that should be asked on a purist corvette forum. You will get some interesting answers.
     
  18. southcross2631
    Joined: Jan 20, 2013
    Posts: 3,673

    southcross2631
    Member

    My brother came home from the army in 63 and went to work for GM and saved every nickel he could and bought 66 427 -390 hp 4 speed red convertible.
    He put an L-88 cam in it later and it ran C/SP at Miami-Hollywood.
    The 390 hp had hydraulic lifters ,but in pure stock trim with stock exhaust and the skinny tires they came with we got it to run 13's.
    He had to put a service block in it in 68 when the flywheel exploded inside of a Lakewood scattershield. It was quite common to replace the blocks back then when a working man could afford a new Corvette.
    They weren't the snobby owners like the restoration people today.
     
  19. I don't know about the situation in general, but I can share my experience.
    I have a 427, 435 hp engine, and the block is stamped as a counter exchange, a warranty block. A restorer offered me a premium price for the block, and was willing to go higher, but I turned him down by telling him that it wasn't for sale.
    Very few people know of the engine, and I still get people calling me and dropping by in the hope of picking it up.
    Bob
     
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  20. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 26,755

    Mr48chev
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    having been around a few Corvette freaks I'd say that now not having the original and documented block is going to make a several thousand dollar difference in price.
    On the other hand a lot of the ones with the hot engines did get blown up back in the day and replaced with a "service block"
    It wasn't that hard to get one align bored then as that process has been done since the beginning of time auto engine wise but it would have been an outside job as far as a dealer was concerned and if the car was under warranty probably not a warranty job. I'd bet some mechanic in the shop ended up with that block unless the factory rep took a sledge hammer to it. I saw that on a warranty replaced 455 HO Pontiac block in the mid 70's. I forget what the damage was but rather than a machine shop repair the block was set in the back of he parts room and then when the factory rep came around he checked it and took a ten pound sledge to it much to the chagrin of one of my buddies in the shop that wanted it real bad.

    Still those Corvette hard cases really scope a car out when you show up with one that has a "special" performance engine in it. I'm not sure what is more entertaining to just stand back and watch, the Corvette restorers at a Corvette show or the Mustang Restorers at a Mustang show. At a local Mustang show they were all excited because some old fart who had been a QC guy on the assembly line was there to verify his chalk marks on the firewalls. You would have thought that Sam Barris was there to tell how he had chopped his first Merc.
     
  21. Mimilan
    Joined: Jun 13, 2019
    Posts: 529

    Mimilan
    Member

    You can make any engine matching numbers [I believe this is a skill that car thieves mastered]
    It is the casting numbers and date codes that concern the nit picky Corvette restorers

    Those guys want period correct snot-nose marks on the windows.
     
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  22. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 3,391

    Budget36
    Member


    That would be an L-88 engine, right?
     
  23. No, the L-88 was a 427 with aluminum heads, single Holley and like 12.8 to 1 compression.
    The 427-435 was the rectangle port version of the three 2 barrel Corvette motor.
     
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  24. Deuces
    Joined: Nov 3, 2009
    Posts: 18,481

    Deuces
    Member
    from Michigan

    Not all L-88s came with the aluminum heads... There were a few with cast iron ones also.....
     
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  25. Here's the jist........ Are you going to buy, or is it just info for your contact?
     
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  26. To my knowledge, all L88 had aluminum heads and solid lifters. This is a subject that causes a lot of heated discussions, and as far as I am concerned it not that important unless a person is doing a restoration. The biggest difference in the 425 , 435 hp engines, was the three carbs. The later engines also had the same RPO #, but came with open chamber iron or aluminum heads.
    Some L72 engines came with optional aluminum heads.
    My engine is an L71, and has the iron heads.
    Bob
     
  27. 6sally6
    Joined: Feb 16, 2014
    Posts: 1,072

    6sally6
    Member

    Info.....I guess. I was just kinda wondering about the whole situation.
    IF this fella buys it I should AT LEAST get to 'take-it-around-the-block'......right?!
    (just can't let my Mustang buddies see me in a Shivel-lay)
    6sally6
     
  28. b-body-bob
    Joined: Apr 23, 2011
    Posts: 412

    b-body-bob
    Member

    I think they're all nuts, but IMO Mopar restorers are the worst. It's how you end up with $30k Dusters. You will never get one of them to accept a restamped or numbers altered car - unless they're a flipper hoping they've hit the motherlode.
     
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  29. southcross2631
    Joined: Jan 20, 2013
    Posts: 3,673

    southcross2631
    Member

    That's why I quit restorations . I did a 5 year job on a 69 Boss 302 and hated every minute of it . Had to force myself to work on it. Felt like I was trapped in a box with no room for creativity.
     
  30. Aaron65
    Joined: Dec 29, 2005
    Posts: 273

    Aaron65
    Member
    from Michigan

    After reading all this, I'm glad nobody cares enough about anything I own to restamp its block. Once again, having low standards pays off!
     

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