Register now to get rid of these ads!

Shimming a starter?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by MarkKoch, Aug 8, 2010.

  1. MarkKoch
    Joined: Jan 16, 2010
    Posts: 294

    MarkKoch
    Member
    from Maryland

    I just picked up a 89 chevy truck with a 350 crate motor in it,all edelbrach parts,comp cams,gear drive(noisy)(donor motor for my 48),not on all attempts but on some starts it sounds kind of grindy/crunchy-I have no specs in the motor build so I dont know how many tooth the flywheel is-if the incorrect starter was installed would it cause this?Or is just a shim problem?thanks for your info
     
  2. ooops
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2010
  3. Droppedhatch
    Joined: Jun 17, 2010
    Posts: 37

    Droppedhatch
    Member

    I have also seen where you need to support one end of the starter so it will not rock during cranking. But you usually shim a start when the starter and ring gear are engage to deep into the mesh of the gears. Check your starter bolts, and if they are tight and correct. Remove starter and look and see if they is any visible problems. If do have some one crank it while you are looking at the stater it see if it is rocking during the crank mode.
     
  4. MarkKoch
    Joined: Jan 16, 2010
    Posts: 294

    MarkKoch
    Member
    from Maryland

    Could that cause the strarter to twist/move when engaged?
     

  5. ooops
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2010
  6. hemiboy
    Joined: Apr 21, 2005
    Posts: 249

    hemiboy
    Member

    You do need the front strap that attaches to the top end plate started thru bolt- that's why the bolt is usually longer, with a double threaded section/end. This give the starter a triangulated support so when it cranks, the torque doesn't twist it. If you can't find one, make one from 1" angle. It just attaches to that top bolt and the block. If it still screams after the strap is attached, try the shims.
     
  7. MarkKoch
    Joined: Jan 16, 2010
    Posts: 294

    MarkKoch
    Member
    from Maryland

    From reciepts I got w/ the vehicle looks like he had to go through 2 of these starters from advance auto parts (part number 6407s) before it has the one on it now-its about 5 months old a few hundred miles on it
     
  8. storm king
    Joined: Oct 16, 2007
    Posts: 1,991

    storm king
    Member

    One of the many little anoyances the Chevy guys take in stride. I had one (SBC)once, and had to shim the starter. I had never heard of such a thing before, being used to well engineered factory components from Mopar.
     
  9. MarkKoch
    Joined: Jan 16, 2010
    Posts: 294

    MarkKoch
    Member
    from Maryland

    From what it seems you guys are rite on track,he probably kept taking these new starters back and trying another and most likely not using the correct bolts and strap was the true problem-I will pull it off tomarrow,guess I will try napa for the bolts?-thanks for the info guys
     
  10. MarkKoch
    Joined: Jan 16, 2010
    Posts: 294

    MarkKoch
    Member
    from Maryland

    do you shim the whole mounting surface or curtain sides to change its pitch?What best to shim it with?
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2010
  11. Buzzard II
    Joined: Aug 27, 2009
    Posts: 354

    Buzzard II
    Member

    You should have the bracket on the starter to keep it from flexing. Get a few starter shims from a chevy dealer. It a strap shim that is as long as the mounting pad for the starter. It spaces the whole starter away from the mounting pad. It's not much in thickness-anywhere from .030 to .060 should do it. Good luck! Bob
     
  12. MarkKoch
    Joined: Jan 16, 2010
    Posts: 294

    MarkKoch
    Member
    from Maryland

    Thanks everyone for there insight!
     
  13. ModelEh1931
    Joined: Oct 28, 2009
    Posts: 90

    ModelEh1931
    Member

    Have a look at the teeth on the ring gear of the flywheel/flexplate to make sure they are in good shape. There should be an 1/8" clearance between the ring gear teeth and the starter motor shaft, shim accordingly. Also people tend to break the starter mounting bolts in the block and then get creative with their fixes...so make sure its mounted properly...and lets not forget the backyard engineer who always removes the front support bracket from the starter that bolts to the block because they think you don't need it....but without that, the armature, bushings and shaft wear pre-maturely due to the shear weight of those massive old GM starter motors, so make sure you have that and if not...get one...not expensive. The straight bolt pattern starter is for a 153 tooth flywheel/flexplate and a staggered bolt starter is for a 168 tooth flywheel/flexplate...that's a good tip...because some 350 blocks can have both patterns, and parts get swapped over the years. Hope this helps.
     
  14. ooops
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2010
  15. hrm2k
    Joined: Oct 2, 2007
    Posts: 3,695

    hrm2k
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    having just gone through the same thing on my T, I would suggest that you make sure the flexplate is on the right way. They can be put on backwards and will work but not great and with a lot of grinding noise ( we called it zinging ).
    Get under the car and take a look at the position of the flexplate in conjunction with the starter gear. Mine was making about 1/8 inch engagement or less. After a while, the teeth had been worn away and all it would do is zing. The good news is when you turn the flexplate around, you are back on the good teeth.

    Good luck
    After I turned mine around correctly, never had the problem again and did not need to shim the starter.
     
  16. MarkKoch
    Joined: Jan 16, 2010
    Posts: 294

    MarkKoch
    Member
    from Maryland

    Well I got the starter off tonight,it does have the bolts w/ the nurling,it didn't have the support bracket that attach's the rear of the starter to the block-but the best thing is the engaging gear on the starter HAS MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF PLAY! so,I have receipt for the starter and can warranty that,will get new bolts and try to get the rear mouting bracket or make one......there was also an unused bolt hole on the driver side of the bell housing that looked like it should have been used for the starter mounting as well?
     
  17. JohnEvans
    Joined: Apr 13, 2008
    Posts: 4,883

    JohnEvans
    Member
    from Phoenix AZ

    Mark: If the play is on the ID of the gear to the shaft that is a sign that it is engaging too deep. You will need to shim the starter . Parts stores usually have the shim pack in the Help section. Try a thicker shim and do make up a support for the other end of the starter.
     
  18. MarkKoch
    Joined: Jan 16, 2010
    Posts: 294

    MarkKoch
    Member
    from Maryland

    JohnEvans to the rescue!whats up man! Your always a big help!,I going to do new bolts also and the other things you listed.Thanks bud for the tips!:)-Where exactly will I mount the bracket on the rear of the starter?Use one of the two long skinny bolts that run along the housing?
     
  19. Johnny1290
    Joined: Apr 20, 2006
    Posts: 2,834

    Johnny1290
    Member

    Good call on the knurled bolts vs the too long bolts with 30 washers on them I found when I pulled mine!

    I didn't know there was another bracket but it sounds like a good idea, I'm on the hunt for one.
     
  20. Roger O'Dell
    Joined: Jan 21, 2008
    Posts: 1,145

    Roger O'Dell
    Member

    You need to pull the starter gear out to engage the flywheel/flex plate, where the male tooth engages the female of the flywheel/flex plate the area should have about .032 I use a small paper clip straighted out to check, shim to correct gap. It's a pain to keep starter gear out while checking.
     
  21. 348tripower
    Joined: Sep 19, 2004
    Posts: 328

    348tripower
    Member

    Keep in mind when shimming that starter if you put the shim across the whole mounting surface it moves the starter down giving you more clearance. If you shim just the outside of the starter it rocks the starter in to the flex plate closing the clearance up. There should be a paper in the box with the new starter explaining the procedure.
    Don
     
  22. thebugbox
    Joined: Nov 29, 2009
    Posts: 255

    thebugbox
    Member

    What Roger Said. I've even bought a starter that had a small metal rod to check the gap. Also remember, many parts houses use remaned parts. This means that many, many, many starters have had resurfaces to true them up, which require shims to get them to 'factory' specs.
     
  23. MarkKoch
    Joined: Jan 16, 2010
    Posts: 294

    MarkKoch
    Member
    from Maryland

    Put the new starter on,installed the 2 brackets it was missing,made sure it has the correct bolts,the grinding sound is mostly gone,but still doesn't sound rite,I gaped the starter shaft 1/8 away from the flywheel teeth-could I have the wrong starter?As mentioned before previous owner went through 3 of these starters-could these starters not handle a high compression motor?
     
  24. ooops
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2010
  25. MBog
    Joined: May 2, 2006
    Posts: 552

    MBog
    Member

    Try this, put a 3/8 flat washer between the starter and the block on the outboard bolt. Tighten the inboard bolt first. The other guys are right, not enuf engagement causes that horrible noise. This will cure your problem. I have never had to space the starter away on any chevy, a lot of the one bolt spacers though...
     
  26. MarkKoch
    Joined: Jan 16, 2010
    Posts: 294

    MarkKoch
    Member
    from Maryland

    Sorry, just reread some of this post....what I meant to say is "are the engine and flexplate you are using from a 3/4 ton or 1 ton truck?" ... if so, you may need the 11 tooth starter. I just went though all this myself ...[/QUOTE] Its a single cab,Long bed 2 wheel drive w/ a nv3500 5 spd-so I'm thinking 3/4ton-(I can check that when I get home)-I think your on to something w/ the teeth on the starter-
     
  27. MarkKoch
    Joined: Jan 16, 2010
    Posts: 294

    MarkKoch
    Member
    from Maryland

    Borntoloze- where did you find that 11 tooth starter and what car/truck was it listed for? Most parts places cant seem to find you parts unless you state years make and model-Ive looked up the part number 6407s for the starter im using(advance auto parts) and cant find any chevy 350 it will work on-so it says,and now it seems lol
     
  28. ooops
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2010
  29. ooops
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2010
  30. MarkKoch
    Joined: Jan 16, 2010
    Posts: 294

    MarkKoch
    Member
    from Maryland

    thanks so much,Im going to check this out for sure,pulling the starter off tonight,thanks and I wil keep ya posted
     

Share This Page

Register now to get rid of these ads!

Archive

Copyright © 1995-2020 The Jalopy Journal: Steal our stuff, we'll kick your teeth in. Terms of Service. Privacy Policy.

Atomic Industry
Forum software by XenForo™ ©2010-2014 XenForo Ltd.