The Jalopy Journal
Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Ratroddude, Apr 21, 2011.
Yeah I am glad atf was finally suggested instead of the kerosene!
i would check the drainback hole in the head before you start it up again.i remember useing a scraper and screw driver in my dads van when i changed his valve cover gaskets.you couldnt ever see the springs,let alone the drain holes.back then i called it a quaker motor.
Have you found anything yet?
I'll second that--
I Idled it on a semi fast idle(was carbed & set the choke one notch!)Let it run quite awhile then drove it thru traffic for a few miles.If ya see alittle better results do it again.Ya figure if it does the trick 50-60 bucks is better then pulling the engine.
My son had a 400 that we put in his Firebird that did that same thing...was the screen plugging on the oil pump....cleaned thoroughly and it ran for several years after ward...still have that old 400.....
The last thing I'd do is run it with kerosene or diesel fuel. That's somewhere in between urban legend and ancient hack way of doing things when cars had dip and splash oil systems and no oil filters.
Pull a rocker cover and see if there's any oil being pumped up the push rods first. Does the car have an oil pressure gauge? Sometimes old lifters get stuck and rattle, Drop the pan and check the screen, replace the oil pump. Lots of things you can do that'll actually work, as opposed to letting it idle with kerosene in the oil pan instead of oil.
FRAM: Finished Ruining Anouther Motor
Ok fellas , I have had to catch up on the honey do list for the last couple of days , but , today is the day , like I said , I went with the cheap tranny fluid meathod , but , I went over to the local Big Lots , and I found this stuff , any of you guys ever heard of it ? , I bought 4 qts. of the cheap tranny fluid , plus one qt. of this "Dura Lube Sludge out" ,I would like to hear any thing about this sludge away if anyone has used it , any thoughts? , I have to pull a radiator out of a OT vehicle , then off to try this meathod , I'll update this evening...
Nobdy has heard of / used this?
I've heard of Duralube but not the sludge remover. Did it help your problem?
I'll let you know this morning , I had to work on a radiator in an OT vehicle yesterday , I was told by the radiator shop that it couldn't be fixed ,(the plastic tank on top was cracked) , I went to the local auto parts store , asked what had the best chance of fixing the problem , they sold me this stuff called "Plastic Weld" by permatex , long story short , if people follow instructions , this stuff is fantastic , no buying a $170 dollar radiator , anyway , spent the better part of yesterday doing that , but , today is the day for the Fleetline , I'll let you know in about an hour or so.....
RRD, its now 9:10 AM, do we need to call you a wrecker?
You may be re-fixing that radiator after it has gotten hot.......I used that stuff and it cracked as soon as it reached full temp....But it got me home.... Most GOOD radiator shops can replace the plastic tanks....$40 - $50....my O/T truck's radiator tanks have been replaced over the years (it has 350,000+ miles)
That stuff you want to use ( Sludge Away) smells like kerosene.......
Methinks you probably have a savable engine, that's just gunked up from lack of oil changes. Really sounds like it has clogged up drainbacks, and the pan is just emptying out, more oil going out than coming in. You can also get the low pressure and rattling when hot if the pickup is restricted from the lack of flow volume- does it get a little hot when the oil pressure goes away? As an example, I had a '70 Mach1 with a 351C that ran great, for about 15 minutes, and the temp would creep up slowly, then the lifters would start to rattle, and the pressure would go down a bit. Tried 3 radiators, shroud, different fans, nothing helped. The car was lowered, pretty much in the weeds, and the oil pan was a bit flattened. Pulled the pan, did some measurements, and the pickup was almost touching the pan. Swapped on another pan, problem solved. Most folks don't realize that the oil system is also a large part of the cooling system, the pan functions as a radiator- if it doesn't flow, it can't cool. Same thing can happen with gunk around (or in)the pickup. The problem with the quick-fix if it's that bad inside, is that all that crap gets runs through the bearings, lifters, etc.,- ever heard of "extrude honing"? It only take a few minutes to pull the valve covers and clean it out, and one can stick a piece of bent wire up in the pan drain and "feel" for sludge in there to prove to yourself that the pan need to come off- but quickly dislodging all that crap with a flush, and running it through the oil system, just ain't good- and the filter will only hold so much crud, clog, and bypass, so the crud goes though the engine unfiltered- back to the "extrude hone" thing- and after that, it might not be "savable" anymore
I think you really need to pull the pan and clean that thing out, before you do some serious damage. All these quick fixes MIGHT do it, or they MIGHT run all that crap right through your bearings,(as mentioned by others) neccesitating an expensive rebuild, including line boring, resizing rods, etc. I have just priced all that, trust me, you don't want that bill.
Here's an idea, what if you pull the pan, and find your pick up in the bottom of it, none of the atf or kerosene tricks will solve that, or how about, how long will it have to run, starving for oil, before the sludge is knocked or washed loose?
I understand the quick fix thing, I want my car on the road right now too, but I also want it to actually run reliabely all summer...do it right, or do it twice....good luck
How does the old saying go?"There is never enough money to do it right the first time, but always enough to fix it the second time".
I have been reading about this, kerosene is a no-no, have used atf before and it worked. But, let me throw this in, you are not working on a current production motor. Therefore, getting replacement parts might be kind of spendy. If you end up trashing the crank, it can probably be welded. If something breaks and beats the block, you may be able to have it welded, I would not bank that though.
It's your car/motor, it sounds like your Dad might help with the work. What a better reason to spend time with your Dad, do it before it is too late.
Just another noob here, but been around the block and still lost, John
And PLEASE do all of this with the distributor out and a primer shaft on a drill motor.....don't start the engine !!!!!
I have had an engine that did exactly what your did - it was a 72' 360 mopar with a 2brl in a van. I would run great for 10 minutes. You could drive it around no problem - then it would loose oil pressure.
I took off the valve covers after pulling the engine (I bought the van for the motor) and it looked like I hadn't taken off the valve covers - they just acted like a jello mold for the sludge! The lifter valley was the same, and the oil pan weighed about 30lbs when we dropped it due to all the sludge. After cleaning it all out with acetone, we checked the bearings (were so-so, some acid etching, but not bad), threw on a new oil pump (was badly worn) and timing chain (also badly worn) and threw it into a dart and beat on it mercilessly for years.
I don't know how it even ran with that much sludge in it. Where was the oil supposed to go?
Well, I tried the Sludge away and ATF trick. It was doing fine , holding a constant 30 psi for around 30-45 min , I decided to drive the car on about a 2 mile trip to my dad's garage , it lost pressure again , turned it off , let it set for a while , pulled the valve covers , sure enough , sludged up , but , oil returns were clean enough to flow oil , put the covers back on it , started it and the pressure was back , let it idle for around another 45 minutes , pressure hung at around 20 psi at idle , so I revved the car a couple of times , lost pressure , got pissed , now the motor is in the floor beside the car , waiting to be torn down , cleaned , and re-built , so , let it be known that the ATF / Sludge Away method did not work for this engine. , guess I'll do a thread about cleaning / re-building a 283...lol , stay tuned , same bat time , same bat channel...
Well at least this way you can drive with more confidence.
....................and a 4 door 57? Hadnt heard about that one yet but I like it even if its just a parts car or whatever, It catches my eye
Good luck on the rebuild but hurry, cruisin season is here
I know it sounds expensive, but you might want to have that block magnafluxed...check for cracks in the cam journal webbings, you could be losing pressure there after the block gets up to temp.
It'll be less expensive than the machine work on a cracked block.
So yanking the motor completely out was easier than dropping the pan?
Short cuts and cutting corners alway takes more time and cost more in the long run.
Now that spring has sprung, and summer is around the corner you have a running engine on the ground contemplating a rebuild because its dirty and sludged up?
Did you do a compression test? Did you stick a vacuum gauge on it? Did you check the oil pick up?
Pull a cap and look at the bearings? How do you know it needs a rebuild or if its worth cleaning out?
See all that sludge on the top end, well that's only what stuck gravity took the rest to the pan. There will be 10 TIMES that amount in the pan. 1-1/2 hours of some sludge away product scooting across the top of that crap isn't going to clean it off of there
Good luck, hope It works out quickly or you find a runner to cruise this season
X2- methinks you gave up way too easy- and I'd bet a $20 that if you would have put an extra quart of oil in it to replace what was held up in the dirty heads, the oil pressure would have held longer. At idle, it was probably draining back fast enough through the cruddy drain holes to keep a head of oil at the pickup, but when revved up, it was pumping it up there faster than it was draining back, and just ran dry at the pickup- if you would have pulled the covers & pan earlier and cleaned it out with elbow grease instead of snake oil, it would probably be running fine right now, for cheap
Well, to tell the truth , I woulda never trusted it anyway , should have did this the first time around because I want to run this car up and down the east coast , and I do have an extra sbc setting in the floor , it's a good running 307 out of a '69 Camaro , I really want the 283 in the car , but , I also want the car to be reliable to run every day, I thought the motorwas in ok shape , but , I guess the oil filter date of 1972 should have been an indicator. , and I can do a clean up and rebuild for around a $800.00 to a grand...small price to pay for going down the highway and not wondering whats going on in the oil pan....and like I said , no down time , I'll have the 307 in it this evening........btw , that 4 door '57 is a parts car for the New-Mexico '57 Belair wagon in the garage , factory A/C , tinted windows , damn near rust free car , just missing alot of parts whe nI found her..but that's another story all together.
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