The Jalopy Journal
Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Ratroddude, Apr 21, 2011.
did you cut the fram apart and see if it broke apart?
was it quite?
Face the inevitable and save your time and money. Pull that engine its shot
I hate being wrong
I would vote for pulling pan. Clean everything/change oil pump.
I didn't cut the Fram apart ,yet , but , the motor never made a sound , I did however turn the engine off when the pressure went south...
Ok, My first guess is to pull the pan,
im picturing junk cloging the sump pic up, till it cant get no more. then after you shut it off, the crap drops off the pick up . it waits till you start the engine again and starts the cloging again
Exactly what I was thinking , but , I guess I'll pul the pan , I was just kinda hopeing someone would suggest just rinsing it out with kerosene...lol , you'd think I'd learn....I guess the pan comes off , rear main is seeping alittle anyway...
Pull the engine, its shot. You can do anything you want, but it still won't replace the worn parts that is causing the loss of oil pressure when the engine reaches operating temp. All your going to be doing is throwing your money away.
If you pull the pan, pull off a rod cap and a main bearing cap and inspect the bearings and the crank bearing surface. I suspect you will find a raged surface. Your cam bearings likely look the same. If an engine starts out with decent oil pressure that goes away as the engine warms up, there is excess clearance at the bearing surfaces. Nothing short of replacing or repairing the worn parts is going to give you oil pressure when your engine is at operating temp. Lots of experience speaking here, been there, done that. Gene
Once you get the pan off, pulling a few bearing caps is the next step. From there you can make a decision on what to do. If they look great then that will lead you one way. If they look crappy that will lead you another.
Reguard less the pan should come off.
The motor running well and quite is a reason to inspect. if it was running like crap, missing, blowing smoke, compression all over the place, vacuum gauge bouncing or sounding like a bucket of ball bearings then that would be different.
This sound like the oil can't get back to the pan fast enough. The valley is clogged with shit, the heads have the drain back holes plugged with shit.
Valve covers and intake need to come off, too. And the pan as long as you are wanting to fix it.
If the bearings were really bad, there would be enough oil leaking out down low to keep the pump submerged.
0 pressure when engine get hot means wore out bearing, pull oil pan and inspect,
I gotta laugh at the guys here telling you how to remedy like its a small block.I guess they didnt read that your engine is a six banger..My 2 cents says your oil pump screen is stopped up...
The kerosene rinse will clear it up.no matter what others say....
mix one gallon of kero with one quart of oil..run it five or six minutes and drain..install new filter and oil...
he said its a v-8 in the post i think....
Ok.my ass is the blackest..I 'd sworn it was the same thread I read a few minutes ago,,same situation only it was a six....The Kerosene flush dont care if a six or V-8 ..still will work.
One other, more serious problem to mention.....a crack in the main webbing or cam journal can cause what you are describing. After the engine warms up, the crack opens up and away goes the oil pressure. Maybe it's not a common thing, but it happened to a friend of mine, after he spent lots of money on machine work....
Drop the pan before doing anything else,my 65 country squire would sound great when cold and then all the lifters would make noise when warmed up and the pan had over 2 inches of sludge covering the pick up and was suprised it even got any oil.
Damn, I'm glad I read this, I just put a fram on mine that I'm building now, I think I'll pull it before I even crank it over. Thanks guys.
x2 on this
I'd go along with dropping the pan. and pulling the valve covers and intake and cleaning things out as I have a pretty good idea that you are going to find that there is a lot of sludge in the engine both top and bottom.
Pull some of the bearing caps too as most likely you will find acid etching from the engine sitting for years with old oil in it. That and sludge in the pan are the two main reasons guys blow the engine soon after they buy or get "Grandma's" old car that never went any place but to the store, hair salon and church.
When you pull the bearing caps you most likely will see etched circles/spots in the bearing surface along with a matching stain on the crank. That is because the acid in the old oil sat there and ate the bearing surface. A set of rod and main bearings don't cost much and along with a new oil pump are pretty decent insurance in helping the engine last for a good number of miles if the rest of it is in pretty fair shape.
I'm not a big fan of putting high detergent oil in an old engine that has been sitting for a long time or has a lot of sludge in it. That alone will probably break a lot of the crud loose and let it go to the bottom of the pan. I am no fan of putting synthetic oil in any engine with a lot of miles on it that is a bit suspect in the first place. Great for a fresh engine as soon as it is past the break in period but it doesn't mix well with the residual oil and crud that would be left in an engine with such as this one.
Personally I'd pull the engine, pull it down, measure the bore, rods and mains and get online and order a rering kit with rods and mains from a place like Northen Auto Parts. Then I'd spend some time scrubbing the heads and block, hone the cylinders and get everything cleaned up. put it back together with new rings and bearings and probably a new timing set. Then lap the valves to make sure they seal and put the heads back together and put them back on. It won't be a perfect engine but for about 150 bucks and a weekend's worth of time you will have a fresh engine that should be good for another few years of cruising. I've had the same exact setup done the same way except I took the heads to my buddy's and ground the valves. That engine does 60 miles a day every work day and has been doing it for the past several years. Not fancy, it won't impress anyone as it doesn't have any trick parts but it starts, runs and drives and takes me to work and back and tows my boat on vacation.
Do you get chunks out when you drain the oil? Run it through a window screen. You could try flushing some kerosene through it with the drain plug out.
Automatic transmission fluid will clean as good as the kerosene while still providing lubrication.
Did this with a quart of ATF on an old engine once. seemed to work well, the engine had alot of sludge so I changed the oil and filter and replaced one quart of oil with ATF. drove it a couple days then changed the oil and filter again. that was some grungy looking oil.
The oil return holes in your heads may be cloged to bad to let the oil return back to the oil pump in the pan quick enough.
That will also cause smoke out the tail pipes worse on start up with worn valve seals because the oil will stay in the valve cover and seap around the valves letting the oil burn on top of the piston instead of returning back to the oil pan properly.
No oil left in the pan=No oil coming thru the pump etc.
You probably already knew that, but anyway......
I did the kerosine trick to my 58 Ford. I poured it in and was going to drive to gas station i worked at to drop the oil. About a 2 mile drive, never made it engine froze up tighter than a Bulls ass. I was 16 didn't know any better.
Nice one. You really have that with .02 dollar? I really like it.
I have heard that you just let it idle , you dont drive it , I haven't did it yet anyway , I'mm off today , so , I'm gonna try something , even if its wrong , if I have to go thru the mtor anyway , then I'm gonna try to clean it with a flush , because I would really like to drive it to Seymore , Tenn. this weekend. and if it works , then I can go , if it doesn't , then I can stay here and pull the motor , I'm off for the week anyway , so , I'll keep you guys posted...
Also at least pull the valve covers to see what that looks like.
instead of using kerosene use ATF, drain the pan,put in a cheapo new filter & fill it with 5 qts of the cheapest ATF you can find. run it for awhile and you'll be amazed at how well it will clean everything & still be lubricating.
drain it when its hot & replace the filter with a new better one & add some good 20-50 oil.
I did that in a NYC taxi cab back in the 70s( slant 6) & it cleared right up & ran forever after.(probably still running!!lol)
Its worth the $20 investment.Kerosene is a shitty lubricant ,you'll probably do even more harm to the engine.
Ok , that sounds logical , I'll use ATF...wish the old dog luck ,BTW , how long is awhile? , drive it? , let it idle?
Yea , I'll do that , I'll take pics , let you guys see what I find...
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