Register now to get rid of these ads!

Projects Shade Tree Special Number Two (Knock on Wood)

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by rwrj, Mar 7, 2021.

  1. rwrj
    Joined: Jan 30, 2009
    Posts: 674

    rwrj
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from SW Ga

    Well, for those of you who followed my last (first??) build, you should expect this to be a long, drawn out deal. You won't be proven wrong. I have this little tin-side v8 60 that I picked up a few years ago and got running, after a fashion. It's still a work in progress, but it shows enough promise that I've been daydreaming pretty steady about what to do with it. I have a couple of old Model T frames that my father and I found in the woods decades ago (literally, they were just lying there), and I recently picked up a junky Model A front end and decent rear, so I decided to do a little mocking up. I'm thinking of some kind of American fairgrounds racer/pre-war British hill-climb special kind of thing with semi-elliptical leaf springs front and rear, so I picked what I felt was an appropriate wheelbase (around 90") and plopped the best frame down.

    IMG_20210227_091504485_HDR.jpg

    That looked promising, but boy are those T frames floppy. I was looking at the other one lying there, and noticed that only the bottoms of the rails are tapered. Tops of the rails look perfectly straight and flat. What if I flipped that frame on top of the 1st one and riveted them together? I had to drill and cold chisel out the old rivets holding the running board brackets on, but that was no big deal. I told you these things were in the woods.

    IMG_20210228_145306798.jpg

    By the way, if you haven't ever tried to un-rivet something that those old boys at Ford put together way back then, you may not have a proper respect for what a good way that is to join metal parts together. My plan is to hot rivet the two sets of rails together. I have no concern about the strength of that method.

    Anyhow, while I was cussing those rivets, I suddenly thought of swapping the top one end for end. Since it is upside down, the rear crossmember of the top frame sits upside down in the front. Should be able to figure a way to mount the radiator to that, and it gives me a strong front crossmember as a basis for whatever I build to support the front suspension. Ended up with this:

    IMG_20210307_124714446_HDR.jpg

    IMG_20210307_111532444.jpg

    IMG_20210307_111540636.jpg

    The ends of the bottom frame will be cut off. They are sitting now approximately where the quarter elliptical springs will be. That transverse spring will obviously be gone.

    IMG_20210307_111546605.jpg

    Same thing with the ends of the top frame, and those extensions on the bottom frame. I don't know what they are, maybe for a touring car body, but they are conveniently placed right now to imitate the eventual rear springs. Had to spraddle the top rails out a bit to clear them. The frames rails are parallel, so they will be lined up on top of each other when all is said and done. The board is about where the pedals will end up, old Jeep seat is the right distance from them for me. Just sitting there right now for dreaming.

    Again, I'm warning you that the updates will come at a trickle, probably. I don't really do a lot of planning, just kind of let things evolve.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2021
  2. RidgeRunner
    Joined: Feb 9, 2007
    Posts: 906

    RidgeRunner
    Member
    from Western MA

    I like your build style. Take the parts you have handy, juggle 'em around, and let them talk to you telling you how they want to go together.

    Great form followed function on your first build, the little fabrication tips and tricks were a bonus. I'll be patiently watching this one.

    Ed
     
    chryslerfan55 and Stogy like this.
  3. v8flat44
    Joined: Nov 13, 2017
    Posts: 787

    v8flat44

    I'm gonna watch. For some reason, your Dad's "Rescue Minor" comes to mind. You are "rescuing" a Tin Side & a T frame etc. Strip planked body i presume....bust out the epoxy! It will be neat for sure.
     
    chryslerfan55 and Stogy like this.
  4. rusty rocket
    Joined: Oct 30, 2011
    Posts: 4,239

    rusty rocket
    Member

    I’m ready for another one! Have you been able to get the other one out for a putt lately?
     
    Stogy likes this.

  5. Jim Bouchard
    Joined: Mar 2, 2011
    Posts: 686

    Jim Bouchard
    Member

    I’m in for the ride!!!
    I loved watching your handiness on the last one!!! This will be great!!!
     
    chryslerfan55 and Stogy like this.
  6. rwrj
    Joined: Jan 30, 2009
    Posts: 674

    rwrj
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from SW Ga

  7. tractorguy
    Joined: Jan 5, 2008
    Posts: 693

    tractorguy
    Member

    I will be along for the ride !! You should try to get your hands on a copy of "Outlaw Sprint Car Racer" by John Gerber........great book and he (and others back in the day) did some amazing things with those frames on the dirt fairgrounds tracks.......he ran the crap out of a 1928 Chev ohv four banger instead of the V8/60, but there were lots of combinations. Have fun
     
    chryslerfan55 and Stogy like this.
  8. guitarguy
    Joined: May 26, 2008
    Posts: 541

    guitarguy
    Member

    Are you talking about that twisty bracket thing off the rear bottom from? It is a spare tire carrier for a touring bodied car.

    And heck yeah, I'm in for the ride on this build too.

    Capture.JPG
     
    chryslerfan55 and Stogy like this.
  9. rwrj
    Joined: Jan 30, 2009
    Posts: 674

    rwrj
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from SW Ga

    Well, these old frames have sure seen better days. For the most part, they are in remarkably good shape, but each one has a spot where the rails have rusted through. The tops and bottoms are fine, all of the rust is in the vertical face. I don't know what the experts will think of my solution, but I just wire brushed the hell out of it, clamped a piece of copper to the outside, and brazed it up from the inside. It's pretty clumpy in there, but the copper peeled off of the outside just fine and it filed flat pretty easily. Keeping in mind that I am doubling the frames, I'm pretty confident it will be strong enough.

    IMG_20210324_134949109_HDR.jpg

    IMG_20210324_145148628.jpg

    IMG_20210324_151743574.jpg

    I also removed for the spare tire holder and trimmed the top frame to length. I left the bottom frame long for now so I can keep propping it on the front axle. Helps with the dreaming.

    IMG_20210324_152526931.jpg

    IMG_20210324_152439671 (1).jpg

    I told you guys progress will be slow. Just kind of piddling around when I find the time.
     
  10. Jack Rice
    Joined: Dec 2, 2020
    Posts: 126

    Jack Rice
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I'm looking forward to another rwrj build. Don't worry about how long it takes, this one will surely be as neat as the
    speedster type thing. V8-60, semi-elliptics, two T frames? Can't miss! Subscribed
     
    chryslerfan55, loudbang and Stogy like this.
  11. RMONTY
    Joined: Jan 7, 2016
    Posts: 2,214

    RMONTY
    Member

    You sir, are the epitome of a hot rodder! Subscribed to this one as well as your original banger-mobile build.......
     
    VANDENPLAS, loudbang and Stogy like this.
  12. rwrj
    Joined: Jan 30, 2009
    Posts: 674

    rwrj
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from SW Ga

    Thank you. I got a bit more done this morning. The crossmembers are riveted on, of course, and since I'm laying the frames on each other top to top (the uppermost frame is upside down), those rivets were propping the top faces of the frames away from each other about 1/8" or so. You can see it up the thread in the last picture I posted. I decided the best solution was just to drill holes in the opposing frame faces for the rivet heads. A little measuring and drilling (and a little work with a rat-tail file, because my measuring skills apparently weren't quite up to the job) and they fit like they were made to be that way. I clamped the frames together and did a little more mocking up, looking at wheel base and ride height. As it is in these pictures, it's about a 102" wheelbase, just shorter than a stock Model A, but that's a little deceptive. The nature of the semi-elliptical (edit: That should be 1/4 elliptical) suspension I'm planning on means the frame itself is really short, around 6 1/2'. I think Frank Gerber's Whippet Special was around 80", which is pretty short. If I was using stock transverse springs, I'd be right about there with this one. I'm not confident that my suspension design skills are strong enough to make a useful car with that short of a wheelbase. My understanding is that short cars can work, but that they can also exaggerate design flaws. I'm hoping to end up with the short frame keeping the weight as close to the center as I can get it which, along with the decent wheelbase, will hopefully be nice to drive. I also want it low, but not "modern" low. As it sits right now, I'd have about 5" of clearance to the oil pan of the v8 60. I might raise it up an inch or two. That's my old defunct Model A radiator and surplus Jeep back seat on there, just for dreaming. The radiator I'll be using is about 3" shorter than the A one, should top out about where the upper tank starts on the mock up.

    IMG_20210327_110001011.jpg

    IMG_20210328_112202398 (2).jpg

    IMG_20210328_112347738_HDR (2).jpg
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2021
  13. 48fordnut
    Joined: Nov 4, 2005
    Posts: 4,014

    48fordnut
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    With you on this . Good luck. Do you still have the # 1 car?
     
    loudbang likes this.
  14. rwrj
    Joined: Jan 30, 2009
    Posts: 674

    rwrj
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from SW Ga

    Sure do. Take it out on a pretty regular basis. Here's a little shaky video of daughter #2 driving me around:

     
  15. shivasdad
    Joined: May 27, 2007
    Posts: 564

    shivasdad
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Texas

    I'm following too. Please clarify, are you aiming at semi elliptic or quarter elliptic? Love your shade tree special. Have fun, I'm so envious when I watch those driving videos!
     
    loudbang likes this.
  16. 48fordnut
    Joined: Nov 4, 2005
    Posts: 4,014

    48fordnut
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    You are Blessed to live out in the country.
     
    loudbang and chryslerfan55 like this.
  17. rwrj
    Joined: Jan 30, 2009
    Posts: 674

    rwrj
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from SW Ga

    Duh. You're absolutely right. 1/4 elliptical is the plan. I'll edit the last post to correct that. Thank you for pointing it out.
     
    loudbang likes this.
  18. RMONTY
    Joined: Jan 7, 2016
    Posts: 2,214

    RMONTY
    Member

    You can tell she is loving driving that machine. The smile on her face is priceless!
     
    loudbang likes this.
  19. stubbsrodandcustom
    Joined: Dec 28, 2010
    Posts: 1,408

    stubbsrodandcustom
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Spring tx

    dig it for sure...
     
    loudbang likes this.
  20. This is badass! I'm building something similar, but my wheelbase is 86"
     
    loudbang likes this.

Share This Page

Register now to get rid of these ads!

Archive

Copyright © 1995-2021 The Jalopy Journal: Steal our stuff, we'll kick your teeth in. Terms of Service. Privacy Policy.

Atomic Industry
Forum software by XenForo™ ©2010-2014 XenForo Ltd.