Whats the rule on this. Flt-blk suggested getting it low so it handels better. We messed around with mine the other day but now I've toatally moved it while getting ready to make my motor mounts. Useing a level on the manifold to set it and get it level and it had 3 degree on the tail of the transmission which I think is what I've been told that is what you need. Take a look at the following photos and give some opinion on the height its at. It will have lakes style headers and the grill shell will be set back over the crossmember. Its just there now for pictures. Its a Buick 430 and it s pretty wide and my F1 box barely fit but it will work with the motor at the height it is now.Any lower and it will have to get cowl steering. Just thought I'd get some opinions before makeing any mounts.
I went pretty high with mine, 289 windsor, the stock sump sits level with the bottom of the rails, meant that side steering was really easy to set up, Ill have a pretty big trans tunnel because of it, but like the way it 'fills' the engine bay.
When I was reading you post, I was thinking to tell you to set it high. I hate when the engine "compartment" dwarfs the motor. But after seeing the pictures, I think you are close it not right on. The 430 is big enough to fill everything up. And Tyler is right about handling. Especially with that heavy of an engine.
looks good but you may want to bring the tail shaft up a little. what is the height compared to the pinion location?
The photos are a little dark for me. In general it's probably about right. I want to set my motor up a bit higher than most for a drag theme. I want to see pictures of trans tunnels and foot areas for a high motor mount, channeled car.
[ QUOTE ] maybe someone else will see something i'm missing, but it looks dead-on to me. [/ QUOTE ] Told you so TZ
[ QUOTE ] looks good but you may want to bring the tail shaft up a little. what is the height compared to the pinion location? [/ QUOTE ] The tail shaft sits right at the bottom of the frame.If it comes up the whole motor has to come up the same amount to keep the 3 degree at the shaft. If I lift just the back up the carb will not be level and be angled forward. I do wish the pics were lighter but thats just my crappy camera.
Tires on it now are for mock up and the ones I'm running will be about an inch taller front and rear so the stance is'nt going to change. Back was z'd the width of the frame and spring ran behind the axle. Channelled 5 inches
Looks about right from my experience. I like to mount the engine a little higher than most as I like to have as much ground clearance as I can get. That way you can lower the suspension and get the tires tucked up into the fenders if you choose to run them. As a general rule your not going to road race these cars and a little higher engine location will not significantly alter handling. Frank
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] looks good but you may want to bring the tail shaft up a little. what is the height compared to the pinion location? [/ QUOTE ] The tail shaft sits right at the bottom of the frame.If it comes up the whole motor has to come up the same amount to keep the 3 degree at the shaft. If I lift just the back up the carb will not be level and be angled forward. I do wish the pics were lighter but thats just my crappy camera. [/ QUOTE ] I don't know who told you you need 3 degrees at the shaft, but that is wrong. The tail shaft needs to come up to level the motor out, it is sitting too low in the back the way that it is now. Level the carb pad. I like to get the tranny mount made first and the trans centered and mounted. Then move the engine to where it needs to be and make the engine frame mounts. You can do it the other way, but you take the chance of getting the engine isolators (mounts) in a bind. Then the bolts are a bitch to get in and out. Anyway, once you have the motor where you want it... THEN phase the rear end with the tranny yoke. You do this by making sure the two u-joint bosses are parallel. Some drag racers will put the rear end at 2-3 degrees negative (down) in a leaf spring car without floaters and ladder bars, but in a street car with leafs they can be close to neatral erring on the side of 1 degree negative. On a car with ladder bars, split wishbones, or in-tact wishbones, you actually have to put a tiny amount of positive (upward) rear end pinion angle in it. You do this because the pinion will move downward as the rear end cycles upward on a ladder bar car. I must also add that as the center of the rear spring approaches the ladder bar mounting point as it cycles up and down, you will need less positive pinion angle. As it gets further away from that point, you will need more. Do you have the rear end mounted yet? Maybe show us some pics of that when you get a chance. Sam.
I think the three degrees confusion is what the pinion would be inclined and then with chassis loaded you should" shoot in" the engine crankshaft centerline on a paralell with the pinion shaft but on a slightly higher plane. My 348 in my A is high in the frame but so is the rear end as it has been a stepped frame -both ends[3"] here is motor in frame.
i think sam hit that dead on the three degree is a farce i think someone in the seventies made it up to sell more u joints everyone was trying to sell me that line when i put mine together i didnt listen i went with what i thought to be right which is parellel and it works fine as for handeling i dont think it will matter that much put it where it looks good and every thing will clear then thats how high it needs to be the handiling that you give up will be regained in the launch you get so either way you win and you have a bad ass car later phil see you sat.
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] looks good but you may want to bring the tail shaft up a little. what is the height compared to the pinion location? [/ QUOTE ] The tail shaft sits right at the bottom of the frame.If it comes up the whole motor has to come up the same amount to keep the 3 degree at the shaft. [/ QUOTE ] I don't know who told you you need 3 degrees at the shaft, but that is wrong. The tail shaft needs to come up to level the motor out, it is sitting too low in the back the way that it is now. Level the carb pad. I like to get the tranny mount made first and the trans centered and mounted. Then move the engine to where it needs to be and make the engine frame mounts. You can do it the other way, but you take the chance of getting the engine isolators (mounts) in a bind. Then the bolts are a bitch to get in and out. Anyway, once you have the motor where you want it... THEN phase the rear end with the tranny yoke. You do this by making sure the two u-joint bosses are parallel. Some drag racers will put the rear end at 2-3 degrees negative (down) in a leaf spring car without floaters and ladder bars, but in a street car with leafs they can be close to neatral erring on the side of 1 degree negative. On a car with ladder bars, split wishbones, or in-tact wishbones, you actually have to put a tiny amount of positive (upward) rear end pinion angle in it. You do this because the pinion will move downward as the rear end cycles upward on a ladder bar car. I must also add that as the center of the rear spring approaches the ladder bar mounting point as it cycles up and down, you will need less positive pinion angle. As it gets further away from that point, you will need more. Do you have the rear end mounted yet? Maybe show us some pics of that when you get a chance. Sam. [/ QUOTE ] Thanks for all the info Sam. Thats why I did this post before makeing any mounts.This is my first attempt at one of these and I'm sailing on a wing and a prayer with hopes of all my HAMB freinds to help me pull it off. I had always heard like you said that the rear pinion be pointed slightly up while the front (Or back of the trans) had a slightly down. Right now as it sits the carb pad is exactly level and when I checked the angle at the tailshaft it was at 2 to 3 degree (down) If I just bring the rear up the carb pad will not be level.I agree that the back looked a little low but I was trying to go off the level on the carb pad. I will try and get some pics of the inside later so you can see. I guess If the back needs to be brought up,everything will have to come up. So the question is, should I bring the whole thing up? The rear is not mounted yet. Its been put in place with the spring So I could figure out my ride height . I just recently changed plans to be useing ladder bars in the rear so the info you posted on that was helpful. I was gonna do a whole other post on that topic. I'll post some inside pics tonight.
Your'e not restoring a classic- set up the chassis with the rear end mounted and mocked up ride height THEN mount the motor and trans as I described-Crankshaft and trans output shaft paralell to pinion shaft except the plane the drivetrain is on will be slightly higher than the plane of the pinion.[aproximately 1/8" is close] that way as the car accelerates the pinion[&housing] which may or may not pivot [depending on] the rear axles type of mountings- BUT will cause the car to squat which in turn will lower the level of the drivetrains "plane" to the same level as the pinion's "plane", making them paralell [when put under power] It will work......but anything can be over analyzed
The engine does NOT have to be in the center of the car. I would move it over to the right some. Ford did this to a LOT of their vehicles from the factory. My 32 has the engine over 3/4" to help with the cross steering ( Vega ). My rear end is a Bronco ( 4X4 ) and the pinion is offset to the right a little for the transfer case SO the 3/4" engine offset helps there too .
I took some pictures of the inside but they all came out to dark except this one and its kinda hard to tell where its at. Postin it sanyway and will try and get some more. Stangzilla, definately see you Sat.I'll have bologna on the tailgate.
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