Hey guys, Here's my 31 Coupe banger project. Just pulled the bumpers, fenders, hood, and interior this weekend. So far I have only collected a dual downdraft Ansen, a beauty set of BLC 682-Js, and a fresh set of new tires still en route from Cooker. The tranny is all fudged up and the rear suspension is just barley pieced together, so its getting all pulled apart this week for a rebuild. I have a few Questions, Would a 4 inch dropped axle correct for my build? Pre '45. Im planning on buying a header flange from that fella on the here but im not sure I want to run it open everywhere. Is the a period correct muffler that would suit my needs? Maybe just a modified stock A muffler? I am in the process of buying a dual point Mallory, would I need a special coil to run this? I think thats it for now but im sure I will have many more soon. Thanks guys! One last short ride with the GoPro camera before the mechanical tear down.
A four inch drop wouldn't have been very common pre war. A swap for a 32 axle and reverse eye spring may be prudent if trying to stick to that time period. Modified muffler sounds like the way to go to me, again, if you're sticking pre war. The car is looking good.
I know I havn't been here for a while, not feelin' to well.......hell, I havn't even been drivin' the A! But, took it out last week with my Pops! See here: http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=623490
Wasn't much done with coupes prewar, cause lake were mostly roadsters prewar or after the war. Most lakes clubs wouldn't allow coupes to run. Post war was when hot rodding really took off. Like the last part of 46 on thru 47 48 when all the vets came home. Coupes were mostly used as tow or push cars. I mean you just had to have a roadster! "B" coupe was very popular after the war Smitty is good way to go. Jesus! That was a clean little coupe! You coulda left it all together and put a "B" shell on it with a couple inches front end drop and some small sealbeams, changed the bumpers and been stylin!
my coupe is a pre-war theme . 4" drop was everywhere then . im not sure why you took it apart as it was a good looking car b 4 . im also still running mechanical brakes with my 4" drop .................. steve
Did you mean pro war? I don't remember hearing much about dropped front axles until in the late 40's when the guy, I believe, in San Diego started making what was known as the "Dago" axle. There might have been some "stretch and bend" prior to that but a lot of those shimmied and shook. Shortly all dropped axles were called "Dago"'s like in, "are you going to "dago" it?" I will probably be corrected but someday I'm going to be the oldest guy here on the forum and no one will be able to say, "Hell, I was there". Then I will tell you how much I dislike the term or name "Banger". When I was a teenager it was a derisive term signifying a piece of junk running noisily down the road usually a model "A". They were also called"a wreck going some place to happen!" I don't own or build "Bangers" I own and build cars with 4 barrel or 4 cylinder engines. I guess I'm just too old fashioned. What do they call them in the land of OZ, "A Sausages?"
Bill, I like your prose,I wish mine was as smooth, reminds me of why I failed English in city college. My recollection of dropped axles has been atributed to Ed "AXLE" Stewart from San Diego. I would guess the axles were filled (again my memory) to stiffen them after stretching, and later the center part was filled with brass and then the axle was chromed. Brass was cheap then as well as time. I also dislike using the banger term, but nowadays that is how they are referred to, another dislike is using her, or she to describe a car or piece of machinery. Maybe they couldn't get a date for Saturday nite. Hot Rods are not feminine, recalcitrant at times but masculine like an unruly teen-age son. Pat
I think you'll find Pat to be right about Ed Stewart beein the first to "sell" dropped axles. Some say he started in '44 others say '46. Mor-Drop started in the ealy '40's also but it wasn't a source of income for the shop until '48 or so. They also did axles for Almquist and other shops. 4" drops wheren't common until the late '50's. Stewarts axles where 2 1/2" for the "29 to '36 axles and 2" for the '37 to "47's. He wouldn't do a '48 axle with the extra hole for shocks. Mor-Drop pretty much followed Ed's lead on the amount of drop. They would also drop a Model T axle 2" on request. All the axle work there was done after hours. The filled axel started as a way to beef up a deeply streched axle. Soon it was done to milder drops especially if they were going to be chromed, easier to polish. Ron
From the perch pin out, the recessed sections of the H shaped axle beam were filled in with weld, making the cross section rectangular. This was done on dropped axles to hopefully regain some strength in the bent and stretched area. Herb
Russetta Timing Association (RTA) pre-WWII ran coupes didn't they? Wow I have been asleep on the banger threads and see some interesting things. Where is DAN?-Weeks My version of faking it....
Yeah silly to take apart a nice car but seems like model A(s) are a dime a dozen to some people. I would start with something cheaper for a build where everything gets tossed aside or piece mealed. I like the argument some people make about starting with the best candidate then toss everything do tons of metal work in the process of chopping then essentially using only the body an aftermarket frame. I honestly find that silly but to each his own as they say.-Weeks
Hahahaha. I myself and one or two other hot rod mates who are more into the early american stuff call them bangers, although when i mentioned a banger to another bloke in their car club he was like "a what? whats a banger?". I can't remember if he mentioned what they called them back in the day, if people even cared about them at all over here. Probably not, because Australias styling cues are fucking shit, and i suppose motor choice went with it.
I remember seeing an artical in Hot Rod where they showed an axle being filled with pieces of flat stock. Ron
Well, my goodness, what a collection of old farts with long memories posting on here. Maybe just people with access to old car magazines, but whatever. The filled axle term does refer to the area between the spring perch out wards to the king pin hole that was stretched longer in order to get the desired drop. This, if not done properly, thinned and weakened the axle in this area causing shimmy and shaking of the front end of the car. I have one in the shop that I plan on using on my coupe build. It has been filled. I find it very hard to accept the use of the term "Banger" when I look at some of the photographs of the very sophisticated engines posted on this forum. Can't you just see their faces when some one might say "Oh gee, is that a banger motor your building there. I just think that old shit is neat! What are all those long pipe things for? Are you going to hot rod it?" Give me a break! (or is it brake)
What do you think off having a vote to change the title of the thread? Here's a scan of a booklet from Oct. 1947! ie. "september 4 barrel meet"?
Hello All! I don't post here in the "Banger Meet" much...I really should though, so here goes. I know that many of you have followed this thread and my many exploits...and those in league with my "partner in crime" Chris Becker (powerwagonmaniac) here on the H.A.M.B. with great interest and respect. For this I am honored. I also know that many of you know of our plans to DRIVE our T's (my roadster and the "Becker Special") to Bonneville for Speed Week in 2012. In light of this somewhat daunting journey, I realize that the "Special" is all new and fresh...yet my ol' roadster is not in it's prime and needs a full "work over" before we go. This "work over" will include an entirely new engine, transmission, rear axle, suspension and general clean up on the under carriage. Here is the link to my "Bonneville 2012...Cruise with me!" thread: http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...light=mrmodelt ..and the link to the build thread for my roadster's traveling companion: http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...light=mrmodelt So On to the goods! The new engine will be a bit more of a "monster" then it's predecessor and specs out as follows: '26-'27 block, bored .080 over '26-'27 "EE" series crank Egge .080 pistons .300C full-race cam 289/302 Ford SB V8 valves New babbit bearings (rods/mains) fully balanced engine/transmission The work was done by Tom and Mike of the Antique Auto Ranch who did an down right fantastic job. The Short Block: The Underside: The new bearings and balanced rods with oil "dippers" (for added oiling to the rods): The new vales (289/302 SB Ford) with new hardened Stainless Steel seats: The bottom side of the valves with new modern style keepers: The new Pistons....yeah, those stamping mean what ya think they do The rebuilt transmission: I also received my new carburetors on Monday. I have been asking around on the H.A.M.B. as to the type of carbs I should use and if the pair of 97's I had intended to use would be too much. No matter who I talked to, I always got the same answer..."Go for a pair of 81's, you'll be better off" So I got in contact with Uncle Max here on the H.A.M.B. who specializes in Stromberg 48 , 97 and 81's and does AMAZING work! He was kind enough to custom build a set of 81's for this motor. Monday they appeared on my desk at work: That concludes this update, but there shall be more to come as we tear into the roadster to install her new "Heart" .....Stay tuned! Clayton - Mr.ModelT
I almost started another rant. It would have been comparing them F-ing little 81's to 97's. But I suppose for touring they will probably be enough. I don't know who started calling them period correct but back in the "day" or "period" it was common knowledge that all things being equal 97's always had it over 81's on the top end! Consequently no one used the 81's Just not done! Oldtimers would mostly say, " Oh them little carburetors that they used on them little gutless ford engines that they run in midgets". I think even the midgets used 97's. I apologize to all for the rant but there it is! I was there and around cars in the "period" say from 1947 or 8 till now. You would need some of the GURU's to comment on a change of name. It might be that Banger is just too deeply ingrained. I don't really want to get personal but in this case I will, Weeks46 coupe looks like a "Banger" to me! And, yes the Russeta Timing Association allowed closed cars starting,I believe, in 1940 but the major lakes closed in 1942. Along with most of the racers off in the various services, gasoline rationing, no tires, virtually no one went to the lakes. No organized races from 1942 to 1946. Hard to find photographs of "pre war" hot rod coupes. After WW2 they were all over the place. Owners pulled the fenders from their 32's 33's and 34's roadsters and coupes and some sedans. They did things to change the "stance" off set wheels to close the gap between tires and the body. First 35 Ford wheels or Kelsey's then steelies or solids. Christ, I'm writing a history of hot rod coupes. Didn't mean to.
I quick scrolled thru Curt Giovanines dad's pictures and only found one picture of a car (street driven) without fenders, it looked like a '29 touring from the rear. The later pictures from '46 on show '32-'34 coupes & sedans without fenders but no A's. Maybe the "bangers" couldn't make the trip to El Mirage or Muroc after being mis treated during the depression & then war time. Even when I was in high school (class of '55) it was common for adults to pull in behind gas stations at nite to get drain oil for their A. here's a pre war picture that's pretty typical in LA.
I grew up playing on the 3 Model T county fair racers my grandad had behind the machine shed. He would buy one and stip it down to the chassis and firewall. Opening day at the fair grandad and his cronies would run in one of 3 races. The 1st, 2nd and 3rd place winners would then square off for the 4th race. They also had a greased pig race. There would be a pen with 15 to 20 pound pigs covered with lard. At the go, the drivers would catch a pig and drive one lap in their T. Lots of laughs and a few pigs with Alstate tire tracks on them. Ya got me by 9 years Pat. Class of '64 here. In '50 there was a couple guys in the neighborhood that were racing a '33 3-window coupe. I have nightmares about how they cut that car up to go racing. Out behind their garage sat the old retired roadster, a mid-20's with a, in their words, "A 4 barrel in it." I don't remember what head it had on it but it did have a shinny cover over the head and a hole big enough to put my 6 year old fist in. Ron
We used to buy reclaimed oil for a low of a dime then it went up over the years to 2 bits a quart, on cold night you could turn the open 1 quart high boy pitcher upside down and do a 10 count before the oil started to spill. My buddies 37 chevy would have normal oil pressure until it warmed up then it would drop to barely 5 lbs,. A lot of that oil was strained through layers of burlap to reclaim it. I believe there were some A's present but highly modified into streamliners. See if you can find a photo of Chrisman's coupe. If you do see if it looks like an A.
Clayton- I'm not a T guy, never had one, and always thought of them as being rather fragile- after all, guys put A cranks in them, and I have put B cranks into A blocks, because the A bearings were too easy to wipe out. That said, the work that you are doing is very impressive-- and that car of yours is about the neatest T that I have ever seen a picture of. If I had a T- it would have to look like that. BTW- what is the significance of an "EE" crank? As to changing the forum name--When I got my first A, in 1953, four barrels were the cars--not the carbs. Bangers, I believe, was what Charile Yapp started calling them- although I probably will be corrected on this. I agree that the term "bangers" should be confined to England, where it denotes a type of sausage. The Brits have some great names for some of their eats (as they might find some of the names we use). "Bubbles and Squeak" was one that had me puzzled for a long while, until I went to work for a company, one of the principals of which had came over in the '60's. When I asked him, he told me that it was, IIRC , fried spinach and bacon. the bubbles were when it was frying, the squeak came from behind you after eating it. Anyhoo- I vote for a name change! Herb
Thanks Herb! I am certainly excited to see how this engine goes when we fire for the first time! You ought to give "Lizzie" a chance sometime "Tin Lizzies" do have their frailties, but they are far stronger and can put out much more than most think or assume they can. The key is plenty...PLENTY of oil and driving them correctly. Sure....you can't beat the hell out of one all the time like a more modern muscle car and expect the crank or a rod not to break or the bearings to go due to not enough oil, but you can have a lot of fun with a built T motor! I have co-built a T that can scare the socks off most in the passenger seat (she'll do 60 in low gear and 75+ in O.D.) and know of T's that built up enough to smoke the tire, uphill at 60 in overdrive (no small feat) and out run muscle cars in a drag race. You can certainly keep the stock T crank or insert an A crank, '28 Chev, etc for added strength. I didn't want a super crazy engine just a good highway hop up job that will move my roadster down the road at a good pace....and have some pedal if I wanna put my foot in it. The "EE" series cranks (identified by their "EE" casting mark) were the last run cranks for '26 -'27 and were the stoutest of the T cranks. The were a beefed up casting from the previous generation and are the best crank to use when building a hopped up T motor using a stock T crank. Even the EE cranks can't take much more then about 6.5: 1...so if you wanna go higher, a Model A, '28 Chev or SCAT's Stroker crank/rods/main caps.
Bill, I couldn't find a picture of the Chrisman coupe either in Curt's or my pictures but I think you're right about it being an A. However I did find a nice picture of a dropped axle that probably needed to be filled. EBTM I wasn't clear if you wanted to vote on changing the name of the thread or the Yappster. The second picture should be familiar to anyone who's waited in line for their turn. Pat
Guys, I'm looking for the parts that join the gearbox to the torque tube on a 28 roadster I'm building. I have the parts in a bucket but my old man misplaced said bucket around two years ago and it seems to have literally vanished. Anyone have spares of these they could part with?
Chrisman's coupe was or is a '30-'31 model. Some call it a '32 'cause of the windshield mods But it is a Model A. Ron
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