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Technical ***September 2021 Banger Meet Thread - Happy Equinox***

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by Jiminy, Sep 1, 2021.

  1. brjnelson
    Joined: Oct 13, 2002
    Posts: 523

    brjnelson
    Member

    My friend Dick got his Jenkins head into a model a coupe so he was running that.
     

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  2. brjnelson
    Joined: Oct 13, 2002
    Posts: 523

    brjnelson
    Member

    My friend Bill put his Gemsa head on his car he ran at TROG in 2015.
     

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  3. brjnelson
    Joined: Oct 13, 2002
    Posts: 523

    brjnelson
    Member

    And Hank kicked ass again with all his Bill Stipe prepared cars. The Burr King Special made it to the show again this year and his Kelley engine really rips. And our friend Burl finally made it to the Iowa hill climb with his car.
    And I caught Ken polishing the nipples on my mascot.
     

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  4. hardtimesainit
    Joined: Jan 24, 2009
    Posts: 602

    hardtimesainit
    Member

    Thanks for sharing pics, great stuff !
    I see the Gemsa setup. I have an old bud, who has the clone to the way this car is looking.
    Only difference… he has a special block…. that brings the beast out of that Gemsa !!
     
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  5. Thanks for the info, posts and pics - I was there as a first-timer. Had been wanting to attend, was going to be in the Forest City IA area Saturday and made plans to drive over to check it out. It was great! I've always liked the early 4 cylinder stuff and appreciate the heritage and the work/passion that goes into finding the parts and running them. I missed your mascot though. Don't know how that happened as I usually have an eye out for stuff like that! :D
    A little pressed for time, had some ground to cover to get back home otherwise it would have been fun to talk to a few more folks to get more background on the cars and the people who attended. Again, it was a very cool event and I'm planning to make it again sometime down the road. I'll post some pics here, hopefully will find time to get the rest of them up in an online gallery fairly soon.
    Thanks to all you folks who keep that early hotrodding flame alive, four sparks at a time!

    Leaving the fairgrounds with the flying lady leading the way!
    DSC_5437_1200.jpg

    At speed, on the timed course.
    DSC_5503_1200.jpg
    And a few shots from the gathering at the fairgrounds.
    DSC_5415_800.jpg
    DSC_5424_800.jpg
    DSC_5412_1200.jpg

    DSC_5421_1200.jpg

    DSC_5422_1200.jpg

    DSC_5423_1200.jpg
     
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  6. hardtimesainit
    Joined: Jan 24, 2009
    Posts: 602

    hardtimesainit
    Member

    As further evidence that our aging hobby is suffering from the loss of our honorable older talented members…
    Yesterday I bought the last serpentine pulley belt system that has been made .. no more ! Too bad. This great invention/ system solved some A/B build problems.
     
  7. Tribalmonkey
    Joined: Feb 17, 2019
    Posts: 741

    Tribalmonkey
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I’m sure someone here has experience with this problem. My new as of March Stromberg 81 has starting leaking and causing a hard starting flooded condition. Runs fine once started. My Holley low pressure regulator is set to about 2.25 psi. My float is set so fuel is about 1/2” from top of bowl. It just started doing this about a month ago. It not only gets flooded but also leaks fuel outside the carb. I usually see evidence on top of my burns intake. I took the top off the carb, ran the fuel pump, and let it sit to see if I could identify the problem. I see the leaking. I’m thinking it could be the float check valve. 4465F6F7-A84B-4F63-8645-2C89C7667F31.jpeg
    The gasket and intake top was dry about two hours earlier.
     
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  8. Tribalmonkey
    Joined: Feb 17, 2019
    Posts: 741

    Tribalmonkey
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    This is the type of check valve I have. 293491D2-112B-42CF-812C-519C16AB3F06.jpeg
     
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  9. 97
    Joined: May 18, 2005
    Posts: 1,944

    97
    Member

    That ball valve looks like it is peeling ? it might be a reflection. What is it made from? I also see a spec of dirt. Pieces of dirt, slivers of rubber (from inside pipe to hose connections, and other debris in a fuel system will make the valves leak.
    However if the system is all clean and this problem only occurs after you leave the car sitting following a run , I would suspect fuel percolation after heat soak . This happens because modern fuel is designed for sealed systems, i.e fuel injection and has a lower boiling point . It is a common problem in carburetors these days.
     
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  10. Tribalmonkey
    Joined: Feb 17, 2019
    Posts: 741

    Tribalmonkey
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Thanks for the response 97! The pics I posted are in reverse order. The carb was leaking so I took the ball valve out, cleaned it, hit it with compressed air, reinstalled it, ran the fuel pump up to pressure and let it sit. I don’t think the valve is pealing. It looks good. However, it continued to leak. I’m with you I believe a needle and seat would be better.
     
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  11. 97
    Joined: May 18, 2005
    Posts: 1,944

    97
    Member

    There lies another possibility (or two) , the Holley pressure regulators are very inaccurate and not very consistent at the low end of the scale. I prefer a Malpassi regulator, they look better(era correct) on a Model A and work better because they have a much larger diaphragm , far more sensitive.
    The regulator cannot control the pressure in the fuel line between the pump and the closed valve which increases as the heat from the engine soaks in with the engine not running, unless it is a tank return system. Stromberg floats have never been very good at containing pressure, due to the low leverage design. I think a nitrofil float, being lighter and therefore more buoyant for the surface area would also put more pressure on whichever valve is used. There is no real room for improvement on leverage in the Stromberg float chamber without cutting down on the size of the float.

    The other thing is that you possibly need to clean the whole system , as dirt will be quickly reintroduced to the valve if it is sitting in the line , pump or tank. A normal Stromberg needle and seat , or possibly one with a viton tip on the needle should screw directly into your new Stromberg.
     
  12. It is another sign, however, it could also be an opportunity for someone else to participate.
    J
     
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  13. Jet96
    Joined: Dec 24, 2012
    Posts: 1,305

    Jet96
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from WY

    I picked up two carbs with that ball set up, I couldn't make them stop leaking. The original style valves in the carbs on my roadster have been basically trouble-free for over four years and lots of miles..
     
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  14. Tribalmonkey
    Joined: Feb 17, 2019
    Posts: 741

    Tribalmonkey
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Jet96,

    I am in the process of finding a needle and seat to replace the ball valve. Hopefully that fixes the problem.
     
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  15. Tribalmonkey
    Joined: Feb 17, 2019
    Posts: 741

    Tribalmonkey
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    97,

    Lots of good information here. I will start with a new needle and seat and if that doesn’t work I will try the Malpassi regulator. Thanks for your help.
     
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  16. hardtimesainit
    Joined: Jan 24, 2009
    Posts: 602

    hardtimesainit
    Member

    Yeah, an old saying… when one door closes, another door opens !
    I’m thinking … even if such opportunity presents…. one must have a lot on the ball… to participate !
    He already had IT down pat and making money.
    His kits were NOT cheap. Must be more to story.
     
  17. 97
    Joined: May 18, 2005
    Posts: 1,944

    97
    Member

    I have not seen these serpentine belt kits, what is the purpose of a serpentine belt on a Model A. Who made them? Pics?
     
  18. brokenspoke
    Joined: Jul 26, 2005
    Posts: 2,921

    brokenspoke
    Member

    I'm having the very same issue with my new 81,s...Malpassi set at 2 pounds
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2021
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  19. guitarguy
    Joined: May 26, 2008
    Posts: 548

    guitarguy
    Member

    Thanks for the pics.

    Mike Bender in the white car did my A-crank conversion in my T block last year

    Nick Nicholas in the yellow/orange car gave me the hookup with Ross pistons for my custom pistons for the Fronty and also sold me his NOS Stipe Laural-Roof camshaft.

    Great guys in this hobby

    And to go along earlier with the machinist drying up, I couldn't agree more. When I sent Mike Bender my parts, I sent him two crankshafts to modify as I couldn't find anyone around here familiar with the process. Whoever he uses in Tulsa did a good job on the grinding, and I have a spare now. I guess the same could be said about modifying the block itself, Mike put alot of effort and sent me all the pics of the process. I had no idea it was that much work with the Bridgeport.

    My local (still a 50 minute drive each way) machinist I use cleaned, bored, and decked my T engine. He is fantastic and at 72, I see the writing on the wall. However he is only really into mid 20th century V-8 stuff and racing engines. Which is good, because that is how I fund my hobby by putting together muscle car Mopar engines for others.
     
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  20. Tribalmonkey
    Joined: Feb 17, 2019
    Posts: 741

    Tribalmonkey
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Ok. I think I’m convinced to order a Malpassi. When I did a search all I found were in UK. Where should I order from? TM
     
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  21. railcarmover
    Joined: Apr 30, 2017
    Posts: 657

    railcarmover

    20210913_141512.jpg
    More junk...anybody find a cure for this disease? Its like a rash from a dirty woman..
     
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  22. 97
    Joined: May 18, 2005
    Posts: 1,944

    97
    Member

    I think Redline has them in the USA, cheapest retail I have seen in the USA is CB Performance at 85 bucks.
    https://www.cbperformance.com/product-p/3185.htm
    [​IMG]

    Here is the factory website,
    http://www.officinamalpassi.it/en/
    The FilterKng FK 67 is the one I think is the best for a Model A, it will work with anycarburettors you choose and looks like it belongs on the firewall where the original Ford watertrap was. , The 85 FK85 is bigger and looks out of place IMHO. Good for a high performance application , but overkill in every way on a Model A .
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2021
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  23. Tribalmonkey
    Joined: Feb 17, 2019
    Posts: 741

    Tribalmonkey
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Wait…. Are you saying that even with your Malpassi set to 2 pounds you are having the same problem? So Malpassi is not the cure all. Oh man!
     
  24. The ball assembly units work very well in race applications not so much for street applications
    Try and get std needle and seat assemblies with viton needle
    Or you can make bypass fuel feed system
     
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  25. 97
    Joined: May 18, 2005
    Posts: 1,944

    97
    Member

    I thought you must have found the proper needle and seats , I would make sure you had done that first. However if so many people are having a problem here , it might be prudent to contact your supplier or Clive or one of the techs at the New Stromberg 97 co before you do anything else .

    I know Mikes Carburettors has viton tipped Needle and seats for Strombergs, as does Daytona Manufacturing, Bob Drake and others. You really do need to get rid of that ball valve asap.
    Read what Jon at Carb Kings said about Ball (Grosse) Valves here back in 2009, The whole thread is worth reading , Jon's post is #8

    https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/viton-tipped-needle-seats-for-carbs.345770/

    I have been rebuilding and restoring carbs since 1974, we have as long as I remember staked every needle and seat we replace, in fact I still do every one I sell as parts too, the only exceptions are Weber and Dellorto and any other NOS genuine parts. I have "special" punches I have modified ,with ball bearing silver soldered on the tip for this.
     
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  26. 97
    Joined: May 18, 2005
    Posts: 1,944

    97
    Member

    One other thing , I was told this morning that there are sellers in the USA who are packaging Chinese 97s and selling them as both 97 and 81 as if they came from the Genuine New Stromberg Company. I have no idea who they are or what the carbs look like yet, but the guy who got stung is going to send me the carb to see if anything can be done with it. He says he has discovered it was made by Shenyang Machine tool Company.
    I searched on line and discovered several companies selling these carbs out of China...I have no idea if they are all manufacturers or just resellers, and really I don't care as long as I can know what to look for to identify them from the real thing for future reference.
     
  27. railcarmover
    Joined: Apr 30, 2017
    Posts: 657

    railcarmover

    upload_2021-9-14_19-33-46.png


    Carter P90091 2psi rotary electronic fuel pump,no regulator needed. The problem arises when you attempt to accurately reduce pump pressure with a regulator.the stromberg/holley requires a positive flow at 2psi exceed it and you will leak.
     
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  28. Outback
    Joined: Mar 4, 2005
    Posts: 1,220

    Outback
    Member
    from NE Vic

    20210915_085754.jpg 20210915_085732.jpg 20210915_085746.jpg
    sorry to interupt a great conversation, any chances any one could id this engine?? No details except found in scrap yard...
    Has a platform for a magneto, divers helmet obviously a retro fit. Notice separate gearbox - clutch in bell housing. Seems to be rather early...
    Lucas starter so presumably English? Very few markings.
    Brains Trust?
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2021
  29. steve hackel
    Joined: Mar 5, 2010
    Posts: 228

    steve hackel
    Member

    In looking at the Malpassi web site, there are "7" different styles of the K67 regulator / filter
    assembly, so which one would you recommend for use on our cars with the 97 style carbs?
    Would the same recommendations hold true for any single or dual carb setups requiring
    a low PSI setting - side draft or down draft. Thanks
     
  30. hardtimesainit
    Joined: Jan 24, 2009
    Posts: 602

    hardtimesainit
    Member

    Hey 97,
    The belt kit contained belt, pullies,fan that made it easy to get right sized pulleys and all lined up as necessary.
    A lot of guys used his kit that allowed ‘39 top loader to Banger engine. Ive used several of those myself. Really good workmanship. Ill give you info. You can call if you like.
     

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