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Technical *** September 2015 Banger Meet - Shadows Getting Longer in the North ***

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by Jiminy, Sep 1, 2015.

  1. winduptoy
    Joined: Feb 19, 2013
    Posts: 2,373

    winduptoy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Sweet it looks special for sure
    3WLarry needs to see this
     
  2. V4F
    Joined: Aug 8, 2008
    Posts: 4,168

    V4F
    Member
    from middle ca.

    no oil pressure yet . blew all the lines out , no help . ideas welcome as I have come to an end ......... steve

    nice start on your bucket .
     
  3. Thanks for the comments fellas. I'm not sure if there is a way to "spin up" the oil pump with and electric drill since its run by the cam gear. Maybe you could make a gearless shaft that could be put in there to fill the motor up with oil then remove it and replace it with the geared one? Idk just thinking out loud
     
  4. orangeamcs
    Joined: Jun 23, 2007
    Posts: 608

    orangeamcs
    Member

    Anybody know if stock length head studs work with a lion speed head 3 or do I need longer. I bought upgraded ones and haven't installed it yet but then I heard from someone they have to be longer
     
    waxhead likes this.
  5. V4F
    Joined: Aug 8, 2008
    Posts: 4,168

    V4F
    Member
    from middle ca.

    im using stock studs , but a few are showing threads in the nutz . seems to be working & no trouble torqueing . make sure your head will slide on by hand . I cleaned the rust etc. out of the holes in the head ...... steve
     
  6. orangeamcs
    Joined: Jun 23, 2007
    Posts: 608

    orangeamcs
    Member

    Making progress. Should have the carb install finished tomorrow.
     

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  7. What are you going to do about the chokes and mixture needles?
     
  8. V4F
    Joined: Aug 8, 2008
    Posts: 4,168

    V4F
    Member
    from middle ca.

    didn't put the head on ............. bummer
     
    waxhead likes this.
  9. orangeamcs
    Joined: Jun 23, 2007
    Posts: 608

    orangeamcs
    Member

    Haven't figured out the chokes and mixture needles quite yet.

    The head is next on the list. I don't like to tear stuff completely apart or make to many changes at once in case I mess something up I can pinpoint the last change I made
     
  10. waxhead
    Joined: May 11, 2013
    Posts: 1,173

    waxhead
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from West Oz

    How did you guys go getting the metal cuttings out of the water passages in the Lion head?? I have removed quite a lot of metal cuttings. Managed to rod out some, used water and air to remove more. Hard to tell if it is all out or not. I might have to bust out the borescope and have a look.
     
  11. not done this, but what about a magnet?
     
  12. V4F
    Joined: Aug 8, 2008
    Posts: 4,168

    V4F
    Member
    from middle ca.

    I guess since mine was used , the guy before me did it . I have blown all the passages out , nothing came out ..
     
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  13. orangeamcs
    Joined: Jun 23, 2007
    Posts: 608

    orangeamcs
    Member

    I used a magnet compressed air water and a drill with a bent up coat hanger on it to clean out my lion head. It took awhile. The most effective from my experience was the coat hanger in a drill down through the water pump hole.

    On a side note I am trying to decide how to set the depth of my new studs before I put my liom head on. A friend told me his engine builder uses green lock tite on the nut and secures them to the studs with just the dome showing so they are all even. Essentially turning the stud and nut into a bolt. Then he installs them into the engine. I was thinking of doing mine this way but using red lock tite on the block side of the studs. Yapp specifes red locktite on the block side. Does anyone see any problems with this method. I don't want to have a problem getting it apart should I have to swap a head gasket. I was also thinking of just leaving out the red on the block side all together or using blue.
     
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  14. Ron Brown
    Joined: Jul 6, 2015
    Posts: 1,614

    Ron Brown
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Yes they will im using new stock lengths with mine
     
  15. Hi, I wouldn't do it this way cause the nut is a finer thread then the stud. It wouldn't have the same clamp load when using the torque wrench!
    (Just my.02 cents.)
    I used the bottom of a slide caliper to measure all studs and high temp thread sealant on stud to block only,
    then lubricated the nuts. (Never had a leaky head!)
    Good luck on your build. :D
    Joe
     
  16. waxhead
    Joined: May 11, 2013
    Posts: 1,173

    waxhead
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from West Oz

    Thanks, I might try the coat hanger and drill also.
     
  17. colinsmithson
    Joined: Jan 27, 2013
    Posts: 383

    colinsmithson
    Member

    Best is a old inner speedo cable on a drill with water flowing thru the casting
     
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  18. waxhead
    Joined: May 11, 2013
    Posts: 1,173

    waxhead
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from West Oz

    Thanks Colin, good idea
     
  19. PhredH
    Joined: Feb 28, 2015
    Posts: 82

    PhredH

    Be aware that 55 lbs torque with lubricated threads is a greater clamp force than 55 lbs with dry threads.
     
  20. V4F
    Joined: Aug 8, 2008
    Posts: 4,168

    V4F
    Member
    from middle ca.

    ooppss , I use never seize . the stud bottoms will rust from condensation . on the head be sure to clean the stud holes , they also rust & then its a tight fit at best . .......... steve
     
  21. winduptoy
    Joined: Feb 19, 2013
    Posts: 2,373

    winduptoy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I used a piece of 3/8" marine cable that the end was frayed on to clean the passages in the Lion head. Ran it in the passages with a drill and blew out with compressed air.
    I used a bottoming tap in the block and cleaned out all the stud holes.
    Also got Chrome Molly stock A studs and used the green gap filling locktite. All the studs ran the threads flush into the deck and were all the same height (except the water inlet studs)
    I used SS acorn nuts to hold down the head.
    I like 50 ft lbs better than 55 but I use the Best brand graphite gasket. Much more than 50 ft lbs you can start to draw up the block deck, that is why I want the total length of the thread on the block end of the stud, in the block

    DSC_0043.JPG
    Good luck

    Larry
     
    Dannerr and Binger like this.
  22. Correct , I use only heat treated cold forged studs. if the head is aluminum use only hardened parallel washers.
    You also need to be sure you have good threads in the block.
    The tread sealant I use is for (extreme heat) and it's non galling so it's like anti seize but stops leaks.
    I've already done a head swap and used longer studs for an OHV, the shorter studs came out easily.
    Joe
     
  23. V4F
    Joined: Aug 8, 2008
    Posts: 4,168

    V4F
    Member
    from middle ca.

    nice looking motor
     
  24. I read all of the comments and opinions regarding head studs, coarse threads , fine threads, torque values, material stretching etc, etc. I use the chrome molly studs from Snyders, same material as ARP they state in catalog. I torque to 60 65 lbs. I have heard how that will distort the block which it probably does. I ain't trying to go 200 MPH but I also don't want to blow anymore head gaskets coming off the line. I use grade 8 bolts on my 2 port. I really get tired of people always trying to re-engineer the tired old A engines. I would just once like to see just how fast one a these Lion heads can run other than in advertisements or dyno tests. I seem to remember a professionally built engine with a highly modified Lion head performing well once. When I say that I would like to see one run I mean printed results not how fast some one can go down the road.

    While I'm at it I have never seen a timing slip for one of C Yapp's 2 port heads either.
     

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    Last edited: Sep 19, 2015
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  25. V4F
    Joined: Aug 8, 2008
    Posts: 4,168

    V4F
    Member
    from middle ca.

    I like contrast .........
     

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  26. V4F
    Joined: Aug 8, 2008
    Posts: 4,168

    V4F
    Member
    from middle ca.

    I also use grade 8 , torque to 60#
     
  27. waxhead
    Joined: May 11, 2013
    Posts: 1,173

    waxhead
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from West Oz

    The challenge is on. Someone running a Lion Head needs to get themselves a timing slip. I would be interested to see the results also. It will be months before I get around to installing my Lion head, that is if Tod doesn't finish the Winfield crows-foot first. If that happens, I will probably install the Winfield.
     
  28. 97
    Joined: May 18, 2005
    Posts: 1,770

    97
    Member

    Ha ...excellent ........
    yeah, good one Bill, but in the interest of a fair comparison, I have to ask.. Will a car with a Yapp head be welcome at a F.A.S.T event? If not, how are we to be sure the hill it is tested on doesn't slope downwards?:eek:
     
  29. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 10,005

    RichFox
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Well I think Bill should take his car out to El Mirage and make a pass with the Lyon head. Then switch to a stock head or whatever the comparison is to be made with. Not a major job. Back to back runs would be informational for all.
     
    colinsmithson likes this.

  30. I have to ask you just why do you think a C Yapp lion head would not be welcome. I don't know it a Lion head has run at a F A S T hillclimb yet or not. Must be odd living in a country where you can't tell an uphill from a down hill.
     

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