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Technical Seeking advice on engine swap in my 1950 Dodge Coronet

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by gaga4toyz, Sep 3, 2014.

  1. gaga4toyz
    Joined: Sep 2, 2014
    Posts: 73

    gaga4toyz
    Member

    I’m getting ready to remove the engine from my 1950 Dodge Coronet. The previous owner removed the transmission and the driveshaft. He also stripped the engine of all the parts except the head. This exposed the engine to the elements and let water and dirt get into the engine. I plan to take this engine apart and see if I can rebuild it.


    The plan is to take the engine, transmission, and driveshaft out of my 1951 DeSoto Deluxe carryall and put it into the 1950 Dodge Coronet. After ready posts on this forum I realize the Desoto engine is 2 inches longer and I will have to move the front motor mount and the radiator forward 2 inches. I would appreciate any feedback on how to accomplish this since I’ve never done it. Thanks in advance for your comments.


    What is the best place to hook the chains on the cherry picker to?

    Are there any other problems I will encounter doing this swap?

    Any tricks to removing the driveshaft?

    Can I leave the transmission hooked up to the DeSoto engine when I remove it?

    Should I remove the grill or any other parts from the dodge to make it easier to install the DeSoto engine?

    I know the DeSoto engine is 2 inches longer, but will some of the other parts on the 2 motors interchange?
     
  2. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 9,406

    RichFox
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    i did a similar swap about 60 years ago. As I remember I had to move the brake line cross over forward or the motor mount would sit right on it and squash it. Real good. Then I had only to drill new holes for the new mount location on the crossmember. Yes you can leave the transmission on. The drive shaft is a simple unbolt at the trans output shaft. I took the grill out of my cars because I did it in a garage and could not lift the engine high enough to clear the grill. Maybe if I was doing it now with the overhead I have now I wouldn't need to remove the grill. It did make it easy to get to stuff on front of the engine. Up to you. I would remove two head bolts to and hook to them to lift the engine.
     
  3. gaga4toyz
    Joined: Sep 2, 2014
    Posts: 73

    gaga4toyz
    Member

    Thank you so much Rich. I've been a maintenance machinist/mechanic most of my life and have worked on my share of cars, but now I want to take it to the next level and learn to rebuild engines and build my cars from the ground up. I'm amazed at all the knowledge on this forum and appreciate the feedback. My young boys have been out in the garage working with me, so I'm passing what I learn down to the next generation.
     
  4. F-ONE
    Joined: Mar 27, 2008
    Posts: 1,499

    F-ONE
    Member
    from Alabama

    See if the Dodge engine is rebuildable, If not find one that is or a good one that's been pulled out resto to make a street rod.
    I would not go through all the trouble of a engine swap just to put a oh so slightly bigger version of what you already have. If I was going to swap engine I would sure enough Swap Engines like a early Hemi, a 383 or even a Slant6.

    Since you seem to be putting all the chips in the Coronet, I would sell the DeSoto, The 46 Ford body, The Cleavland, and scrap the T bird frame.

    Then I would use that money to rebuild or repower the Coronet.
     
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  5. George
    Joined: Jan 1, 2005
    Posts: 6,941

    George
    Member

    318 is fairly easy, early hemi would be good also. Not much room for the Leaner though.
     
  6. moparob
    Joined: Jan 8, 2009
    Posts: 339

    moparob
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Ive got a 50 Dodge and the 230 Flatty got pulled in favor of a Chrysler big block and TorqueFlight combo. Just about anything will fit if you've got the patience for it. Instead of moving the radiator support forward which there really is not much room to do I opted to move the firewall back roughly 2 inches to get the engine in where I wanted it. There is plenty of side to side room which would accommodate a Chrysler Hemi at 32 inches width and a DeSoto Hemi is even smaller. photo 1(5).JPG image(22).jpeg
     
  7. moparob
    Joined: Jan 8, 2009
    Posts: 339

    moparob
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Don't count out the ol 225 Slant Six, there one hell of an engine and will last forever, have good drivability characteristics and if you choose you can build them for forced induction and really have a sweet engine that's different. I had thought about a 225 for my 50 but I already had a built B series based engine hanging on a stand so that's what I used, had I an old 225 laying around and no B Block I would have went with the six. Here's a couple of pics I pulled.... BlownSlantsix.jpg hot-slant-six.jpg turbo-close.jpg
     
  8. 50dodge4x4
    Joined: Aug 7, 2004
    Posts: 3,536

    50dodge4x4
    Member

    The slant 6 is longer then the Desoto straight 6. Any modern engine is going to probably result in a transmission change as well. If your going to change to a modern engine, an LA 318/360 is probably amount the easiest modern stuff to install in your 50 Dodge. If your swapping in a modern motor, consider swapping the rear axle at the same time. If your going to swap in a motor that requires extra effort, I'd sure consider the Small block Mopar.

    While I'm at it, if you need to redo your brakes, upgrading to a disc brake system is cheaper the replacing the original stuff. www.rustyhope.com has a decent disc brake kit for you car. Gene
     
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  9. gaga4toyz
    Joined: Sep 2, 2014
    Posts: 73

    gaga4toyz
    Member

    Thanks for all the suggestions. I have thought long and hard about this and changed my mind several times in the process. At this time I'm really looking to get the Dodge Coronet on the road to enjoy it with my kids. I have 3 small boys at the house that love these old cars. We've had several road trips picking up cars and parts and they are having a blast. I don't have alot of money in any of the cars I have and I feel like it's a good opportunity to learn without the fear of messing something expensive up. At this point I want some experience removing and installing a motor and getting the dodge on the road. I'm going to work with the DeSoto drive train I already have. I'm sure down the road after I get this 16 1/2 foot 3500 pound behemoth on the road I will want some more power, handling, and stopping ability. I appreciate the suggestions for motor swaps, and I'm sure down the road I will be building a hemi or other motor for this old dodge. Since the brakes currently don't work I will definitely be contacting rusty hope for a disk brake conversion. Thanks for that suggestion as well. I have a couple of questions.

    Will the intake and other parts from the 23 inch Dodge coronet engine fit on the 25 inch DeSoto engine?

    I know where a 55 dodge Royal 2 door is that is being parted out. Seller says it has the Red Ram engine. Would that be considered a hemi? Would 55 dodge royal drivetrain (engine, tranny, rear end) be a good future swap into my Dodge Coronet? Thanks
     
  10. gatz
    Joined: Jun 2, 2011
    Posts: 1,311

    gatz
    Member

    Not to confuse the issue, but if you'd like to stay with the in-line flat head six,
    I've got a running engine from the car in my avatar + the transmission (no OD). It's a 1940 Chrysler Royal.
    I have a video link to it running before it was pulled. I'm fairly certain the PO had put in all new valves as there was a coffee can with old ones in it. The auxiliaries would be included, as per this pic.
    Let me know via "converstation" and I can send more pix and vid link.
    gatz
    40 Chrys Engine s-n C25-I3786_3.JPG
     
  11. George
    Joined: Jan 1, 2005
    Posts: 6,941

    George
    Member

    Red Ram is a Hemi some years & becomes a Poly @ some point with the Hemi becoming a Super Red Ram, can't remember when that change happens. just ask if the plugs are in the valve covers(hemi) or out of the side of the head like most engines(Poly). You should look @ relocating upper shock mount to the frame also. Exterior size of the '55 270 is the smallest of the hemis & the easiest to fit in.
     
  12. 73RR
    Joined: Jan 29, 2007
    Posts: 6,148

    73RR
    Member

    The 55 Royal drivetrain would be a fairly easy swap, but still a swap requiring certain amount of fabrication. How are your fab/welding skills?
    Depending on which trans is in the 55, you might want to consider something newer. Adapters are available for a multitude of transmissions, manual or automatic. It is also possible, with some scrounging, to swap in an A833 with mostly all factory parts.
    I cannot recommend any pre-62 rear axle due to the rear drum assemblies. The best swap would be a Cherokee or Explorer. Dimensional data in my web site.

    .
     
  13. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 8,663

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    1950 is a bad year because they were 6 cyl only and not meant for a V8. Easiest V8 swap is a Chev small block. Hate to admit it, but it is true.
     
  14. moparob
    Joined: Jan 8, 2009
    Posts: 339

    moparob
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Hell 1950 was a great year for MoPar. Any engine will fit, and every engine will require some amount of fabrication unless you bolt up a 218/230 flatty. Just my 2¢ but be different and don't throw in a cheby 350 like the rest of the herd, it's a dodge and needs to be powered by a Mopar. There is a plethora of 318-360 small blocks, 225 slant sixes in junk yards that will slide nicely I between the fenders of your dodge just as easily as any 350. I posted earlier but I've got a 50 dodge wayfarer which has the same frame as yours and inner engine bay dimensions and I tucked a 383 Chrysler in there with minimal effort, search for my thread and there's a complete build thread in there. A la318/ tf904 would be a great little engine for your car, good gas mileage and still have power.


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  15. moparob
    Joined: Jan 8, 2009
    Posts: 339

    moparob
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    ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1409954772.086783.jpg ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1409954797.353486.jpg ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1409954832.986018.jpg


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  16. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 8,663

    Rusty O'Toole
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    A slant six or a 319 will NOT slide nicely into that frame. A slant six is significantly longer than the stock six. The only ones I have seen put into cars like that, were recessed about 6" back into the firewall.

    A V8 actually fits easier than a six, but most V8s hit the steering. The steering was moved on later models that were made for V8s starting with 51 up DeSoto and Chrysler.

    I have seen engine swaps done on these cars using both Chrysler and Chev engines, the Chev V8 definitely fits easier with less interference.

    Although a late model mini starter on the 318 or 360 does ease things quite a bit.

    My first choice for an engine swap would be the DeSoto/Chrysler flathead six, next would be a Chev V8 or maybe a narrow angle V6. 318 or 360 can be fitted in with some extra work and finagling, like offsetting them 1 1/2 or 2".

    Because the hand brake is on the trans, if you change engine and trans you pretty well have to change the rear axle as well and of course, this means a new driveshaft.
     
  17. moparob
    Joined: Jan 8, 2009
    Posts: 339

    moparob
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    I own a 50 dodge with a 383 Chrysler that I dropped in, and have done one or two small block Chrysler's swaps in MoPars 40-50's, the 318 is a great little engine to swap in and YES they do sit nicely between the frame, just as good as any cheby 350 if not better, I only say this from first hand experience and having personally done it, not conjecture.
    ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1410028373.759540.jpg
    Here you can see a 41 Plymouth that I put a 318 Chrysler in with no firewall modification and their engine bay is smaller than a 50's Dodge but have the same front frame crossmember.
    ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1410028551.708317.jpg
    And here's another Plymouth with a 318 and no firewall modification that we finished up and took to Myrtle.
    ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1410028589.526047.jpg ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1410028613.474780.jpg
    Yes it is true that 225 slant sixes are longer but you don't necessarily need to box the firewall to fit it, there are other options.
    Just to clarify but most cars have their engines offset to the left to clear the steering, just look at a Chrysler 8.75 or a ford 9" the pinion is off set to the left so the drive train lines up.


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  18. moparob
    Joined: Jan 8, 2009
    Posts: 339

    moparob
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    Almost forgot there's no difference in external dimensions between and Chrysler 318 or 360 there absolutely the same. And if you were to swap to a SBChrysler the 727 or 904 fit really nice in the stock trans tunnel. A drive shaft can be had cheaply if you use a stock one and have it shortened to fit your chassis. And you can also reuse the original rearend in your car if you chose to but I have found that a body rear axles are the perfect swap for 40-50 Mopar's whether it be a 7.25, 8.25 or 8.75.




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  19. moparob
    Joined: Jan 8, 2009
    Posts: 339

    moparob
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    Absolutely yes that would be an excellent swap into your 50! The only issue is going to be steering box clearance with the drivers exhaust down pipe but this can easily be done. The red ram hemis were nice small little fun engine and easier to drop in than their bigger Chrysler counter parts. If your wanting to drive the 50 with minimal effort then I would suggest finding another 218/230 flatty and to replace yours. There's all kinds of neat multi carb intakes and speed parts for the Flattys and they just plain look cool!
    I was also wondering if you had thought about upgrading from a 6v to 12v electrical system? It's easy to do and you can still use some of the 6v stuff by using a Runtz diode inline with them. I only say this because I have rarely seen 60 plus year old cars with wiring that is still reliable and safe being as the fabric insulation is usually in rough shape which could potentially cause shorts among others headaches.


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  20. steze48
    Joined: Aug 8, 2009
    Posts: 159

    steze48
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    from texas

  21. Ben Crawdford
    Joined: Feb 5, 2019
    Posts: 1

    Ben Crawdford

    I'm new to this and also only 17 years old however I want to rebuild and engine swap my dad's old 1950 dodge coronet. I love the idea of a 225 slant six with a supercharger or turbocharger, would the frame need to be reinforced? That much power coming off the frame built for the stock engine, couldn't that twist the frame?? I was also wondering if a split manifold could be found for this to run dual pipes??
     
  22. George
    Joined: Jan 1, 2005
    Posts: 6,941

    George
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    The frames are fairly solid. Ran an Olds 455 & then a 331 Hemi in my '48 Plym w/o problems. Pipes: try "Edgy"
     
  23. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 8,663

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    Frame, suspension etc are very strong and well built. Can easily handle any six or small V8 or even a big block V8. With a real powerful engine disc brakes and a stronger rear axle are recommended.

    Don't bother using the six if it is not powerful enough in stock form. Go ahead and put in a V8. The swap will be no harder, and it will be easier and cheaper to get the HP you want.
     
  24. George
    Joined: Jan 1, 2005
    Posts: 6,941

    George
    Member

    There's a number of Threads on disc brake conversion & relocating the upper shock mounts on 46-54 Mopars.
     

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