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Projects Second project: Spyder Power/Double Trouble

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by The_Cat_Of_Ages, Jun 18, 2022.

?

Go for it?

Poll closed Sep 12, 2022.
  1. Yes

    73 vote(s)
    67.6%
  2. No

    17 vote(s)
    15.7%
  3. Wait for a better one.

    18 vote(s)
    16.7%
  1. Found out 06 was only 1964, 1963 got the 09 vin.
    Its a true spyder.
     
    ClarkH, ffr1222k, tractorguy and 2 others like this.
  2. SS327
    Joined: Sep 11, 2017
    Posts: 1,487

    SS327

    See I told you they did that sometimes. You got worried over nothing. Now go plant those walnuts and harvest those trees in 50 years to finance that restoration!
     
    The_Cat_Of_Ages and Budget36 like this.
  3. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 9,991

    Budget36
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    About 35 years ago I came across a Corvair. My dad had a friend that seemed to know them, asked me it it had a turbo. I hadn’t looked at the engine yet (car was behind a fence) but he told me if it had a turbo, it would have a magnesium fan. Always wonders about that, fact or fiction? No, didn’t buy it after talking to the owner, he wanted more that I was wanting to pay.
     
    The_Cat_Of_Ages likes this.
  4. I will have to see what this fan is made of, most of the engine is aluminum, so i assumed it was too
     
  5. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 9,991

    Budget36
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    To be clear, it was just what I was told, I’ve no information to support that.
     
  6. It was true, magnesium fans (pre1964) were an option that could be chosen, and were usually steel on most lower model cars, but the magnesium fans like to... explode. Usually, someone would choose the magnesium fan on high performance option cars.
     
    SS327, Budget36 and Hamtown Al like this.
  7. SS327
    Joined: Sep 11, 2017
    Posts: 1,487

    SS327

    You made a comment a while back about them being an old man’s sportscar. You couldn’t be more wrong. How many cars were factory turbocharged in 1964? The Oldsmobile f85 and the Corvair. That’s it! The Corvair could beat most motorcycles of the time off the line when equipped with a stick shift. Add in some sway bars and you have a little canyon carver. Not that we have many canyons in the Midwest. But you get what I mean. They were quick little snots for their time. With modern technology can be even quicker!
     
    ClarkH, Cosmo49 and The_Cat_Of_Ages like this.
  8. Well, seeing how it was never driven in winter (judging by quarters and rockers), and has sub 50k miles, I assumed an older person must have bought it for a fun car to drive in the summer. Its definitely not an old persons car, just owned by someone older, also, they passed in 2010, so thats where i came from aswell.
     
  9. SS327
    Joined: Sep 11, 2017
    Posts: 1,487

    SS327

    If you think about it that car could have been purchased new by a person not much older than you are right now. How old will you be in 46 years? Probably about the same age as that “old guy” who bought it new. Scary to think about ain’t it? I never used to think like that either when I was a pup. Now go have nightmares now, night, night.
    Just so you know I took no offense by your statements. Just the opposite, I got a good laugh. I hope you do to! It was a budget Corvette if you think about it. Good enough to delay the introduction of the Camaro by 2 years!
     
  10. 57JoeFoMoPar
    Joined: Sep 14, 2004
    Posts: 5,570

    57JoeFoMoPar
    Member

    Let me play devil's advocate here for a moment. I just did a quick FB Marketplace search and came across this.
    275991784_4754693344629711_4776621304105806633_n.jpg 276023373_5517041068314971_9034738206323316659_n.jpg 276157318_5009687175754568_8456063509965283752_n.jpg
    Here is the description:
    1963 Corvair Monza Spyder Turbo - top of line for '63; Azure Aqua color & interior; Original motor, trans & wire wheel covers; Chrome Chevrolet side mirrors; All gauges & electricals work; New clutch & flywheel, transaxle seals, input shaft seals, rear main seal, rebuilt turbo carb, rebuilt generator, new voltage regulator, recent valve job, radial tires very good, no rust; registered & inspected, starts easily, runs well, repair manuals, beautiful example of Spyder.

    The asking price is $16,900 and it's located in Albany, NY.

    Obviously I have never seen this car and can't vouch for anything, but on face value, this looks like a nicely restored, turn key, turbo, 4-speed Corvair that needs nothing or next-to-nothing. Honestly, it looks like a really fun car with a nice interior that you could really get out and enjoy.

    As I mentioned, there are companies that will lend on collector vehicles, like LightStream and others, which are basically just private auto loans. Do a Google search to see others. I'll factor in a down payment of $5,000 and an interest rate of 7%. If you paid full asking price, over 60-months, you'd wind up paying only ~$2,500 in interest. And you're all in for right around ~$20K. See here. calc.png

    In the interim, you get the exact car you want right away. It could take you years to restore a project car like that, assuming you have the skill and the tools. From a cost perspective, I still say there is virtually no chance you'd be able to restore that Corvair you found into the condition of the done car for the same price, especially factoring in the price of every interior piece, the cost of chrome, small pieces and so on. It's easy to think about the big items like engine and transmission, but when you're doing it, you realize it's the little things that are all adding up. Hoses, fuel lines, brake lines, hardware, fittings....these things nickel and dime you to death. None of that considers the value of your time, which will likely be the biggest investment of all.

    Look, I get it. For some it's the journey not the destination. And as someone who likes custom cars, I understand full well that I am going to pay a lot more to do it myself and have it the way I want it, instead of buying a completed car. That's the price of bespoke. But if you can get what you want as a finished car already, I still think you're crazy not to just let someone else take the depreciation hit. It's just bad economics.
     
  11. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 9,991

    Budget36
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I understand where you’re coming from. Here’s my thoughts. I need to make that payment monthly. I can see it if it’s a driver you want (or the payments don’t hurt you at all) but I like saving up a bit extra when I’m working on it, might be several months before I spend any $$ at all.
    And the car you showed does/should bring in a reality check for the OP and have him weigh some options.
     
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  12. 57JoeFoMoPar
    Joined: Sep 14, 2004
    Posts: 5,570

    57JoeFoMoPar
    Member

    Maybe it's that the Corvair is not a high-desirable car in the grand scheme of things and even nice examples are still very reasonably priced. On the other hand, labor is the same price no matter what car is being worked on. Body and paint labor rate is the same whether they're blocking a 63 Corvair or a Tucker. For some of us, there are an echelon of car where the only point of entry to having a nice car is to put in the sweat equity. But a 63 Corvair Monza turbo is really not one of those cars.

    And FWIW, when push comes to shove, these things we love so much are completely frivolous expenses. They are, almost without exception, poor investments of money that could more usefully be spent elsewhere. That's not why we do it. But that has to be within reason. This stuff is for the disposable income of those fortunate enough to have it. But you have to make sure the rest of your house is in order first, and the important stuff can't suffer because of it.
     
  13. I'm most likely not going to sell this for a long, long time, and for me, its about saving this car from the scrapyard, I want to have a car saved entirely by me, that most people would just have junked or scrapped, sure its bad economics, but who else would save it?
     
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  14. BamaMav
    Joined: Jun 19, 2011
    Posts: 5,920

    BamaMav
    Member
    from Berry, AL

    I haven't seen anybody ask the question, but I may have missed it, why was it parked to start with? There is always a reason, usually it is a major repair that they couldn't afford. Just because it turns over doesn't mean it doesn't have a rod knocking or worse. If it's something you just can't live without, it doesn't matter, but if not, it can be an expensive undertaking.
     
  15. It was parked originally because they couldnt get it running, likely needs rings and such, i will be rebuilding the motor, as its practically a lawn mower engine.
     
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  16. -Brent-
    Joined: Nov 20, 2006
    Posts: 6,758

    -Brent-
    Member

    This is one of those projects that makes you pick up three other cars to complete and then you just build one of the others. Hahaha.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2022
    spudshaft and The_Cat_Of_Ages like this.
  17. SS327
    Joined: Sep 11, 2017
    Posts: 1,487

    SS327

    Sure that Aqua colored Corvair is pretty and done. But was it done right? How many shortcuts were taken on the mechanicals? What kind of bodywork is covered up by the pretty paint job? Atleast if he does his own he can control the quality. It can be built to his specifications. I can see why he wants to rebuild it himself and I have to agree with him. We should be encouraging him, not discouraging him. It appears he is going into this with his eyes wide open and knows what is ahead of him. I applaud him for recognizing he has found a truly special car and wanting to save it. Just think of the things he will learn. Sometimes it’s not all about the dollars and cents. Go pup go! I’m with you on this journey.
     
    joel, The_Cat_Of_Ages, ClarkH and 2 others like this.
  18. ClarkH
    Joined: Jul 21, 2010
    Posts: 1,303

    ClarkH
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Try to get it running first. If it really has only 50K miles, I'm thinking the engine is likely OK and the issue was carb or ignition. Might need piston rings, but bottom-end likely fine. (Funny to say "bottom end" on a pancake engine. :D)

    I totally agree. And here's the thing: At the end, you will know Corvairs inside out. So you won't be That Guy. Who is That Guy? That Guy is the dude who bought the Aqua car for $16K and took it to the car show. Talk to him for two minutes and it becomes obvious he knows nothing about Corvairs. That Guy is the one with the poorly balanced carbs (on normally aspirated models), leaking push-rod tubes and a sloppy shifter. All easy fixes if you know Corvairs. You, on the other hand, will come to know Corvairs. They are fairly straightforward, but they are different.
     
  19. Weirdest thing about this 'vair, the shifter is solid, if a bit stiff. It has zero slop.
     
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  20. ClarkH
    Joined: Jul 21, 2010
    Posts: 1,303

    ClarkH
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    That's an indicator that it is indeed a low miles cars. Corvair shifters gets sloppy when the original nylon bushings in the shift tube wear out. You can get an inexpensive bronze bushing kit from Clark's Corvair Parts (no relation :D) to fix that, if it ever becomes a problem.
     
  21. You should check out Finnegan's Garage on YouTube. No paywall, and sometimes you can learn things...
     
    The_Cat_Of_Ages likes this.
  22. I thought it may have rolled over due to excessive pedal wear, but it seems that the pedal covers are... decentigrating.
     
  23. Also, since its a turbo, i want new rings set to the exact gap, plus rebuilding the turbo. There will be lots to do!
     
    SS327 and ClarkH like this.
  24. Squablow
    Joined: Apr 26, 2005
    Posts: 16,276

    Squablow
    Member

    I buy project cars because I enjoy building project cars, not because I believe that it'll be cheaper to build it myself than to buy one done. If you're 65 years old and you want to get as much driving time in as you can before you can't drive anymore, buying a finished one is probably a great idea. But I would not suggest a teenage kid try to borrow money to buy some restored Corvair. The old car world needs more builders and less investors, anyway.
     
    SS327, ClarkH, Wanderlust and 4 others like this.
  25. guthriesmith
    Joined: Aug 17, 2006
    Posts: 7,438

    guthriesmith
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    1. H.A.M.B. Chapel

    Did you get the car bought? Seems I may have missed that if so.
     
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  26. Atwater Mike
    Joined: May 31, 2002
    Posts: 11,102

    Atwater Mike
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I worked on a number of Corvairs thru the years, one Porsche customer remarked about the difference between the lowly Corvair versus the Porsche 911. (obviously)
    I told him that "Dr. Ferry Porsche bought the basic 'flat 6' design from General Motors in '61. Some improvements were made..."
    Damn fool believed me.
     
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  27. Still waiting for title work. Good as mine once title is in hand, he gets his 1000
     
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  28. CAVEMAN_1960
    Joined: Dec 10, 2010
    Posts: 67

    CAVEMAN_1960
    Member
    from Michigan

    Mis-information re: cooling fans on Corvair engines. All 1960 thru 1963 Corvair engines came with a cooling fan made of metal/steel. There was never an option to order a different material for the fan. Base engine, high peformance engine - even the 1962-3 turbocharged engines had a a steel fan. The magnesium fan was on all 1964 thru 1969 Corvair engines. No, I never had a magnesium fan "explode". That is just not a true statement. The only other fan material that was considered was a plastic that was never offered due to the fact that when it got hot (Hey! It is attached to the engine!!) it out-gassed formaldehyde. Not something that you would want wafting into the passenger's compartment with the engine heated air from the heater system.
     
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  29. My bad, i read about a couple of magnesium fans exploding and assumed it was relatively common.
     
  30. SS327
    Joined: Sep 11, 2017
    Posts: 1,487

    SS327

    My neighbor across the street from me growing up actually had a fan grenade. It is not a myth or story I heard. I was in the car when it happened. We both liked to shit ourselves! A new fan and tins from Smith Chevrolet and some wiring repair and he was back in business. I don’t think it was a common thing, but it did happen.
     
    The_Cat_Of_Ages likes this.

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