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Sdra 2010 engine rules

Discussion in 'HA/GR' started by bob hindman, Oct 12, 2009.

  1. bob hindman
    Joined: Dec 28, 2005
    Posts: 323

    bob hindman
    Member

    250-292 CHEVY can be used.
    no lump ports
    intake port boss canot be removed

    240-300 FORD can be used.

    Late model engines must use flat top pistons.

    Cast iron head & block only.NO ALUM.

    NO V-8 HEAD ALLOWED.....

    BETTER ASK BEFORE YOU BUILD SOMTHING CRAZZZZYYY.....
     
  2. Chief_Wannabe
    Joined: Sep 15, 2009
    Posts: 84

    Chief_Wannabe
    Member
    from Ozark, MO

    No V-8 head allowed ? What does this apply to ? Suppose, just for discussion purposes only that somebody was looking at building a Pontiac Trophy 4. One head makes it an I-4, 2 heads makes it a V-8. Who's going to make that call ?
     
  3. bob hindman
    Joined: Dec 28, 2005
    Posts: 323

    bob hindman
    Member

    If the head came on the engine stock its OK....

    HINEY..
     
  4. Hudsonator
    Joined: Jun 19, 2005
    Posts: 335

    Hudsonator
    Member
    from Tennessee

    Glad I haven't built one yet. No way in hell I can compete with a 292. I'm abitious, not plumb stupid.

    I am totally disappointed. Beyond disappointed, but should have seen it coming.

    damn.

    Hud
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2009

  5. Joe Hamby
    Joined: Jun 6, 2005
    Posts: 405

    Joe Hamby
    Member

    If anyone wants to change the rules to use a 300 ford or a 292 chevy, then they are posting on the wrong board, maybe inliners international?
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2009
  6. 64 DODGE 440
    Joined: Sep 2, 2006
    Posts: 4,421

    64 DODGE 440
    Member
    from so cal

    Sounds like them boys are heading down the road to N(o)H(ot)R(ods)A(llowed) certified chassis and a whole bunch more regulations that are gonna drive the cost of running one of their cars right through the roof.

    Hope they enjoy the drive to the poor house.:p
     
  7. bobw
    Joined: Mar 24, 2006
    Posts: 2,376

    bobw
    Member

    No certification of the chassis is needed untill you run 9.99. From 10:00 to infinity requires the same build rules & safety equipment at any NHRA track that is strict. Many tracks aren't, and relax some requirements based on how fast & quick the car is.

    With the 302 GMC's capable of around 350 horses, just about any other inline or flathead from that era doesn't have much of a chance. I would guess the cost of building a flathead Ford that is competitive would very high. So, in one respect, It will be cheaper to be competitive with a 292 Chev or a 300 Ford.

    I now have a slant six in my car. In the corner of the garage are a couple 292 Chevys. It wouldn't cost me one cent more to run one of those instead of the slant.

    In my opinion, the main thing lost with this change is the connection with the early to mid-50's era.
     
  8. seems less like vintage dragsters than current inliner gas altered.
     
  9. Hudsonator
    Joined: Jun 19, 2005
    Posts: 335

    Hudsonator
    Member
    from Tennessee

    I just finished typing something to the effect, " I admire Corey's philosophy with a renewed appreciation".

    I'm still having a hard time dealing with my disappointment in SDRA.

    Hud
     
  10. mudflap261
    Joined: Oct 24, 2005
    Posts: 588

    mudflap261
    Member
    from tulsa

    one of the reasons this came about was no car count. there was a number of guys saying they would build cars if they could run later engines, be cause it was to easeier to find engines and parts for them. but they like others forget about THE 6 INCH TIRE RULE, THAT DID NOT CHANGE it does no good to make 400 hp if you cant get it to the ground.WILL THE FENCE SITTERS BUILD CARS I DOUBT IT.A 11/11 SECOND RULE WAS PUT INTO EFFECT RUN QUICKER YOU WILL HAVE TO SLOW THE CAR DOWN, BY ADDING WEIGHT OR RETARDING THE TIMING ETC ETC.TO ME THE CLASS IS ABOUT GETTING MOST OUT OF WHAT YOU HAVE WINNING ISNT THAT BIG OF A DEAL.THAT SHOULD EVIDENT BY THAT TANK WE ARE BUILDING.ITS MORE ABOUT THE COMMRODERIE. ONE THING FOR SURE IF WE DONT GET MORE CAR COUNT WE ARE HISTORY
     
  11. 348chevy
    Joined: Apr 2, 2007
    Posts: 431

    348chevy
    Member

    Would I like it to stay the same, you bet. But somehow we have to get more cars to run. I won the series at Tulsa this year so why would I want to change but as Mudflap said we need more racers in the class. Hudsoator I believe that you can build a competitor out of a Hudson engine. I don't know what my GMC engine makes HP wise but I am not going to change engines because I believe I can compete against a 292 or a 300. Everyone complained about the GMC's making everyone not being able to compete but the GMC's are to expensive to get and build. A 302 head goes for $1000 now If I parted my engine out it would bring $5000. I don't know the answer but I'm still going to be in the game. The people that I talked to who were interested in building a SDRA were turned off by the few old engines. Tulsa is going NHRA next year so that means I have to change the rollbar and make a few more changes to meet the rules. I would rather race than sit at home. ;) Roy
     
  12. Ryan
    Joined: Jan 2, 1995
    Posts: 21,632

    Ryan
    ADMINISTRATOR
    Staff Member

    I'm afraid this class is no longer relevant to the HAMB.
     
  13. Old6rodder
    Joined: Jun 20, 2006
    Posts: 2,546

    Old6rodder
    Member
    from SoCal
    1. HA/GR owners group

    Actually gentlemen, these are two very different things. SDRA's been a divergence from it's inception, with no claim nor intention to be HA/GR. I've always respected'em for that clarity (not so, other divergences that try to lay claim to the HA/GR name while ignoring it's concepts).

    They took the original HAMB HA/GR concept and applied modern concepts of racing to it. It's exactly what they wanted and will sink or swim on it's own merits, seperate from HA/GR, as they intended.

    HA/GR's alive & well and living the dream it was devised to fulfill. We were slow getting it rolling out here on the left coast but it's doing just fine, thank you .......
    #11 & #14 :D http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=407525

    We had a new straight eight flattie HA/GR and the first passes of ThingyM's new little chevie six HA/GR at the Eagle Field meet last weekend.
    And there are more a'buildin'. Tom's flattie six and another engine for Joe's "slipper" style job for two definite, and three others I know of personally.

    Give it a bit of time and you'll see out here exactly what the Aussies are enjoying.

    And I honestly hope the SDRA take-off succeds in it's own venues as well. They're not exactly HAMB but they're putting good effort into a great idea and in as much as they're born of the HAMB originally I hope they continue on the board.
     
  14. my philosophy of HA/GR remains intact, perhaps reinforced even, by SDRA, even if that now means one less venue for my rail. "Competetive" is relative, and racing the old way is absolutely paramount to me. Thankfully, Ryan has absolutely no intentions of changing HA/GR.

    Mark-
    build the HA/GR. Don't worry about the SDRA. Wrap that Hud in the most vintage shell you're capable of, and live the time warp. Leave the AN fittings, four barrels and Powerglides to the guys that crave the computer generated timeslips, and focus on the past.
     
  15. 64 DODGE 440
    Joined: Sep 2, 2006
    Posts: 4,421

    64 DODGE 440
    Member
    from so cal

    Sled, you have it right. After spending last Saturday at the Eagle Field meet.......flag starts, no time slips and a grin that won't go away, thanks to Old6rodder letting me make a pass in the Barn Job, the past is where it's at. These cars are meant to be time machines and after one pass all of the other stuff goes away.

    Anyone who can't have fun doing this should be considered not capable of having fun.
     
  16. Down the road
    Joined: Oct 14, 2009
    Posts: 4

    Down the road
    Member
    from junkyard

    I hop you boys thinkin bout building one of them fords gota lot a time an money. It aint no bolt togedher an go fast deal im here to tell ya. My boys been atit a few years anthey still a chasen one them gmcs, Man they got a hole pil a blowd up hi dollor ingins out be hin the barn ta prov its so. shore gona be fun whatin ya tri. good luc.
     
  17. Down the road
    Joined: Oct 14, 2009
    Posts: 4

    Down the road
    Member
    from junkyard

    They tells me I posta do a howdy so yall no woo i are. Well now i started wit a tmodel an then got a amodel. some 1 tol me a cmodel cranc id make it fasor butt i coudnt see no diffarence ya stil pollit tha samewy. got me 1 henrys 40 models that went fastor eny thum amodels. darne thang got 2 meny themare wores fer me. thene da misses had themare 2 bois an theys putan end 2 ma racin fer a spel. Ibranged em up rite so theys no bout chinary theys dun ritwel i gus. Theys gotem 1 themare racin macins anare adoin rel gud cus day brung hom somdim trofis. dy bin casin 1dim gmee dakant katch da sys. dats bout oll ise gots ta saa fer nou.
     
  18. butch nassau
    Joined: Nov 29, 2008
    Posts: 205

    butch nassau
    Member

    This sounds about right.

    My chassis has been done for six weeks.I have a235 Chevy...had to buy two to make one.

    I've spent the last 45 days trying to put this obsolete, obnoxious antediluvian piece of automotive junk together.

    Between machine shop owners who stand on the roof so they can "see me coming" to predatory hoarders of nostalgia parts to gunk so thick that I was actually kicked out of the "engine cleaning " bay of a local car wash to....

    Anyway, I just now got the long block together...oh yeah, I forgot the $440.00 for the adapter to a reasonable transmission--I turn on the computer and find out that all that was unnecessary because the later model engines will now be legal in the SDRA.

    Having said all that I support the move to the later engines 100%.

    These old engines are just too tough to update, too hard to find and too expensive to enjoy.

    Hooray! I hope the change brings more cars into the class. The concept of wide-axle nostalgia type dragsters is brilliant, but the adherence to long defunct iron is counterproductive.
     
  19. Ryan
    Joined: Jan 2, 1995
    Posts: 21,632

    Ryan
    ADMINISTRATOR
    Staff Member

    I hope you guys do well and have fun, but I think you sdra guys are gonna need to find another forum to gather on. Nothing at all personal, but we try to stick with traditional topics here.
     
  20. vectorsolid
    Joined: Apr 28, 2008
    Posts: 498

    vectorsolid
    Member
    from Montana

    Glad to see that no V8 head rule.
     
  21. vectorsolid
    Joined: Apr 28, 2008
    Posts: 498

    vectorsolid
    Member
    from Montana

    just so I understand what you're saying. Do you mean a different part of the HAMB, not the HA/GR section. Or do you mean a completely different website?

    I found about 2 threads on every page, in any section here on the HAMB where they're certainly not "traditional" topics. But I'm not a mod here, just an enthusiastic guest. But there are all kinds of threads like this guy with a 2.3L ford turbo engine he's trying to get in a 32 panel... Did we shut him down? http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=307454&highlight=subaru

    what about this post: Which is actually pretty damn slick, but that engine ain't traditional
    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4041557&postcount=46

    Are we gonna lock toymakers thread, or our thread, or all the others that aren't completely accurate? or ban folks that mention an acronym that doesn't match the forum title. Is there that kind of time available to police that? Be a LOT less content in this section, in real short order, as not all of it matches the title.

    Ryan, I'm on your side, I get what it's about, We've seen the posts and discussed direction in other threads. I'm cool with what you've written or I've seen quoted. We're all doing, what the concept is about, with our own takes on it. That ain't bad. Ours wouldn't have gotten done without some minor compromise. And I'd like to think our build thread has been informative, funny, well done, and provides valuable information to a stumped builder. Or proves that "everyman" can have a shot at it.

    I'm not trying to argue. Just put up a good debate to leave the SDRA guys to hang out. What's a few months on an engine when the pricinciples of hotrodding it are the same? case in point the slant-6 crowd sneaking in and the 292 being shunned although built just months later (as I understand it).

    I'd like to add that I'm a builder with a Vintage dragster that's hit the track, not a sideline shit talker. With the help of the HAMB and the loyal 20-30 guys that haunt the HA/GR section we are promoting the values of the HAMB (as a whole, and as I understand it). HA/GR, SDRA, NHRA, and a whole host of others. These are the people we seem to have found with common interests. and we gather here on the HAMB. ;)

    I would also add that I'd hate to see all the SDRA guys pack up and leave. that would mean I'd have to haunt another website, I don't have that kind of time.

    Wouldn't it be best to keep everybody here so we could keep an eye on things? If some leave, there is less control in the eventual path. And they will have to make an effort to get a forum going to discuss vintage dragsters after they leave. And there would be more incentive to make it successful.

    Just for the record. I like coming here, as a "hotrod" guy, and discussing our vintage creations.

    As is, a few different years on engines shouldn't negate a mans ability to talk about stuff on a forum. Isn't the very "essence" of traditional hotrodding the desire to make your shit faster, no matter what it is? Even our first car, by definition is NOT a 100% accurate HA/GR car. But we put those stickers on it anyway. Why? So people could google it and find out what's going on in the Vintage world. And support the forums and payback by creating interest.

    took me a long time to wrap around some of the ass-wads that hang out here on the HAMB. And they're only about 1 in 10. the rest of us are average dudes with garages full of junk trying to make the best of it, helping othere dudes with garages full of crap. But I muddled through, and have been largely supportive and helpful ever since the rough first week or so of "initiation".

    Just my .02 and trying to be politically correct as possible. :)

    -Vector
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2009
  22. Ryan
    Joined: Jan 2, 1995
    Posts: 21,632

    Ryan
    ADMINISTRATOR
    Staff Member

    To be honest, I'm not interested in control at all. I'm interested in traditional hot rodding... My take is this - the SDRA is cool. They are doing a good job of creating a little drag racing class for folks to easily participate and have fun with. However, the further and further it gets from traditional drag racing, the less and less it is relevant to what we try to focus on here. That doesn't mean I think they suck or anything... it's just editorial.

    I guess we can see how it goes?
     
  23. so, whatever happened to the SDRA "no 4bbl's in 2010" that I read about earlier this year?
     
  24. Hudsonator
    Joined: Jun 19, 2005
    Posts: 335

    Hudsonator
    Member
    from Tennessee

    If one reads the above statement over and over again, it becomes completely oxymoronic.

    Nostalgia by definition IS long defunct iron.

    I also wish the SDRA guys lots of luck, and really like the guys that hang out here. I went out to meet Hemibaker at Bowling Green this past June and was treated very cordially - learned alot. Another SDRA guy, Dave Jones, hunted me down in the show area and we talked a good hour and a half. Talked to Hiney on the phone and swapped a bunch of e-mails with him since finding this section of the HAMB.

    I don't want those guys to fall silent, we've all come to like them and enjoy their exploits. However, they have certainly placed thier asses on the slippery slope in terms of this new rule. Get more "new" folks involved? - yeah probably. What about the guys already there? Reckon they'll stay? I can tell you from experiance; if you've spent the time, money, and effort to build a nostalgic engine - a change like this can be a back breaker. Not so much the cost of a new engine, but the waste of the old one can be hard to swallow. There is always a fallout when a rule like this changes.

    Best of luck,
    Hud
     
  25. bobw
    Joined: Mar 24, 2006
    Posts: 2,376

    bobw
    Member

    SDRA races with their Big Dog/Porch Dog format, so everyone gets the same number of runs. There is room for a player that cares less about winning than running an engine he is obsessed with.

    If you look carefully at the last videos from Oz, you will see (gasp) handicap starts. Better known as dial in's. I could be wrong about this if there are guys being very late on the lights. They also have a "not to exceed" e.t. that is within the reach of a variety of engines.

    At the risk of personal embarassment, I'm guessing the current record e.t. for SDRA cars is very close to the ultimate e.t. So, to be a winner you need to select equipment with the potential to run that quick. If a person builds with an engine that can't be competitive then their objective is more personal and internal than winning races.

    SDRA has developed a racing class and circuit and needs enough participants to keep the series viable.
     
  26. esfoder
    Joined: Jan 1, 2009
    Posts: 119

    esfoder
    Member
    from Oregon

    If I lived down there I would run my combo no mater the rule change. If it's not fast enough then I would go and do some home work make it faster.I agree with bob in the sense that if ya pick an engine that can't be competive ( they are not all created equal ya know) then be happy with what you've done. If winning the whole show is what you crave then pick the right combo for the job. Lots of the old timers switched brands to be more competive in stock cars and drag racing. Survival of the fittest is what heads up is all about. Plain and simple


    Just my thoughts

    Dusty
     
  27. Down the road
    Joined: Oct 14, 2009
    Posts: 4

    Down the road
    Member
    from junkyard

    Guys i'm sorry a bout the last two posts on here but that was my dad. He's 95 and still going strong. I hope you could read what he wrote, he only has a third grade education. He still love to go to the track with us and never met a stranger. He was a very good mechanic and hotroder in his younger days.

    What he said about the pile out behind the barn is true. We have raced Fords for a few years with some success. We did OK with the flat heads but the 6's haven't been so great, the 240's ran good, but the 300's have not lived up to our hopes.
    We seem to have a lot of broken parts to bring home. We even had a "pro" build a motor for us with about the same results. He put the good parts in, did the right machine work, even got a good flowing head to no avail. The sad part of the story is we are still chasing an old but good running GMC. He is like that rabit, "he just keeps on going". We both run comparable cars, but he just kicks our tail.

    The only guy that can run with the GMC is running a 250+" chevy6. It is a winder for sure, it must turn at least 7000, cause it screams. It can be heard over any thing it runs against.

    Well it back the the barn to add to the pile out back.
     
  28. bobw
    Joined: Mar 24, 2006
    Posts: 2,376

    bobw
    Member

    DTW, For a while I thought your posts were some kind of joke or put-on. But there was an honesty and emotion there that meant that couldn't be the case. I appreciate that your dad shares his information with us.

    Way back when Ak Miller showed how to build a 300" Ford six in Hot Rod magazine, I did one. Put it in a Model A pickup. Not too smart having 2 cylinders inside an already small cab, but I'm short. It ran good but never had the performance I expected.

    Here's hoping you and Dad build build a Hambster out of that pile behind the barn.
     
  29. Old6rodder
    Joined: Jun 20, 2006
    Posts: 2,546

    Old6rodder
    Member
    from SoCal
    1. HA/GR owners group

    Read'em just fine. Welcome to the board.
     
  30. butch nassau
    Joined: Nov 29, 2008
    Posts: 205

    butch nassau
    Member

     

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