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Scored a 283!!! a few questions

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by ANDEREGG TRIBUTE, Jun 4, 2011.

  1. ANDEREGG TRIBUTE
    Joined: Jan 1, 2008
    Posts: 1,385

    ANDEREGG TRIBUTE
    Member
    from Bordertown

    I am really stoked!!! I just scored a '65 195hp 283 for the lil roadster! I'm thinking this will be plenty of motor for the hot rod, and I kinda like that its a 283. Its standard bore and the crank journals are standard as well. Every thing seems in real great shape, block is really clean inside and somebody had put an m55 pump and double roller timing chain in it. So here is the plan, degrease the outside, paint it up, and install new bearings. I have a set of double hump heads, they need to be checked out and rebuilt, and I also have a set of fresh 305 heads with z28 springs. I have a 103 Speedway Motors solid lifter cam (.504 lift, 290 int/300 exh dur., 106 lobe sep, 2500-6250 RPM) sounds really great and have always had great luck with it. Then an aluminum intake and Holley 4bbl with my tri-y headers & 2 1/4" exhaust, all mated to a t-5 and 3.73 rear gears.

    Now for the questions...
    Sound like a decent combo?
    Harmonic balancer...is a press fit with no center bolt, will a normal 350 balancer work without the bolt?
    What are you guys doing about mounting a lower pulley to the stock 283 balancer and rivits that stick out front?

    Thanks, for some reason I'm really excited about this lil motor over the 355 that I was going to use. Thanks again:D:D:D
     
  2. dave lewis
    Joined: Dec 12, 2006
    Posts: 1,378

    dave lewis
    Member
    from Nampa ID

    First of all, congrats on a nice score. !
    The crankshaft needs to be drilled and tapped to 7/16-20 fine thread. Use a stock balancer bolt and washer. The balancer will take bolt-on pulleys. The early pulleys have another set of holes opposite the bolt holes ( they are larger) that the rivets pass thru.
    All that being said, my advice is to get a small diameter balancer (maybe 6" diameter, from a 307 or 327) from the dampner dudes.
    You really do not need or want a large diameter balancer on a 283.
    And please, drill the crank...You will thank me / us later. ( do a search , lots of horror stories..)
    Dave
     
  3. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 55,945

    squirrel
    Member

    Sounds great! aside from the lame 5 speed thing :)

    I'd run a stock 283 damper and pulley setup. And either 283 power pack heads or the 327 4bbl heads you have.

    Most 283 dampers stay put, but sometimes folks screw them up (open up the hole so it's easier to install) or they crack at the keyway and fall off. If the damper takes quite a few whacks with the hammer (and block of wood) to install it, then it will probably stay on. If it goes on easy, it'll fall off. if you're not sure, drill and tap for a bolt.
     
  4. Yes tap the crank, and dont forget to look close at the stock washer that goes with the stock balancer bolt. It is slightly cupped. Be sure to put the cup facing in toward the crankshaft, so as you tighten the bolt in will minutely compress. I cant tell you how many engines I've seen where the person that put the bolt in, never had a clue that is was directional. TR
     

  5. I'm not around that many stock or near stock builds but I'm thinking Dave Lewis or someone can chime in on Valve to piston. Just over .500" lift and 290/300 advertised is something like 245-250 @ .050" , do you think he should check V to P to be safe? If he unknowingly has 1.6 rockers he might run into trouble, now he's at .538" lift. If the valves in the double hump are bigger than the 305, I think I would check, again, I;m not around the stockers like some of the other HAMB experts are, thanks TR
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2011
  6. ANDEREGG TRIBUTE
    Joined: Jan 1, 2008
    Posts: 1,385

    ANDEREGG TRIBUTE
    Member
    from Bordertown

    Thanks guys, I appreciate the input. Ya, I think I'll drill & tap the crank, I already have an extra HB-bolt and washer and maybe just drill out my pulley for the rivits and use the 283 balancer.....especially if i use the double hump heads. Monday I'll drop off the double hump heads to have them checked. The pistons have 4 reliefs I figure with the smallish valves in the 305 heads the 504 lift shouldnt be a prob, and all my cyl heads have stock 1.5 rockers. But double checking the v to p clearance on the camel humps is great advice. Damn now I need to score a dirt cheap 3 deuce set-up :), and ace the HEI...lol But the lame t-5 stays....at least its not a slush box
     
  7. ANDEREGG TRIBUTE
    Joined: Jan 1, 2008
    Posts: 1,385

    ANDEREGG TRIBUTE
    Member
    from Bordertown

    Just dug out the cylinder heads....3782461, 202 valves and chambers look smaller than 64 cc (no relief area below spark plug, dates are K45 and K195, God I hope these are good....they were GIVEN to me about 12 years ago and have just been sitting in the corner. And the intake is a Holley Street Dominator, single plane, and I have two carbs to choose from.... Holley 9776 (450 cfm, man secondaries) and 1850-2 (600 cfm vac secondaries). Im gettin all giddy!!!!
     
  8. Hdonlybob
    Joined: Feb 1, 2005
    Posts: 4,115

    Hdonlybob
    Member

    I am running a 283 bored .60 with 305 heads, Melling cam (similar to the old L79) flattop pistons, Edelbrock dual plain intake, and Edelbrock 550 carb. 2 1/2" Ram Horns with 2 1/2" exhaust, with a 4 speed.
    It is a snappy little engine, and a pleasure to drive.
    I like it, but others have more experience on the heads..so this is JMHO.
    Good luck, and let us know what you do.
    Cheers.......
     
  9. 4 pedals
    Joined: Oct 8, 2009
    Posts: 958

    4 pedals
    Member
    from Nor Cal

    Ditch the 461 heads, those 2.02 valves won't clear a 283 bore without a serious notch. Run the 305 heads, lots of compression ( a good thing) with enough cam to bleed most of if off, you chosen cam would probably work well with pump gas. Run the 450 carb unless you're planning on more than 7000 rpm. Deep gears will be your friend!

    Devin
     
  10. ANDEREGG TRIBUTE
    Joined: Jan 1, 2008
    Posts: 1,385

    ANDEREGG TRIBUTE
    Member
    from Bordertown

    NIICCCEEE!!!!! I like your thinking! Hadnt thought about those heads were probably originally on a 327....great point (and it wont cost a dime to run the 305s..lol)! 7000 rpms are no where near in my future, I just want something that sounds great, and maybe gets a bit of gas mileage compared to the 355. Thanks
     
  11. JeffB2
    Joined: Dec 18, 2006
    Posts: 9,484

    JeffB2
    Member
    from Phoenix,AZ

  12. Novadude55
    Joined: Nov 10, 2009
    Posts: 2,352

    Novadude55
    Member
    from CA

    I would use a performer rpm manifold dual plane intake for the street, especially if its goin to be a daily driver, gas mileage sux on the single plane, but you will have fun with it,
     
  13. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 33,861

    Mr48chev
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    The man busts his ass to find a 283 so he has at least has what he feels is a traditional small block and you pop up and suggest about the most nontraditional manifold made. Read between the lines before making suggestions out of left field.

    Anderegg Tribute, Since you have gone to the effort to find a 283 I'd suggest making the effort to keep the engine pre 1962 in appearance. That would mean running a set of powerpack heads even if you do have to change the seats for unleaded and running a manifold available in the 50's or 60's. And early Corvette 2x4 intake or a 3-2 intake would look great but a small four barrel on and early aftermarket aluminum intake would probably be more practical. You migh also think about trading the 2.02 heads to someonne for some 1.94 camel hump heads. which wouldn't have the or as much valve to cylinder wall clearance problems. That should be a real easy trade to make as guys are still hunting for the 2.02 heads all the time.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2011
  14. ANDEREGG TRIBUTE
    Joined: Jan 1, 2008
    Posts: 1,385

    ANDEREGG TRIBUTE
    Member
    from Bordertown

    As far as intake goes...I have a performer on the shelf...it just has no sex appeal for me on this car and neither does a q-jet...hence the holly carb/single plane intake. I have big time hood clearance issues so multi carbs are a no go (I have to build a custom air cleaner as it is). I hate the fact I'm opting for hei as it is but they are so easy and reliable...its just a no brainer....Im really trying to make this thing part store friendly. I'll look into some other early head possibilities...but my headers were built to accommodate accel short header plugs....so I don't know if short plugs are avail for old heads...as well as hei heat ranges. Maybe I just want too much....LOL. thanks for all the input its been helpful.
     
  15. mysteryman
    Joined: Apr 20, 2011
    Posts: 253

    mysteryman
    Member
    from atlanta

    somebody mentioned run the 305 heads for more compression?????im still learning this stuff.how does that increase the compression.i thought the compression would be raised by the smaller combustion chambers.i thought your earlier model heads seemed to have smaller chambers.whats the difference in a 305 ,350 ,and 400 head.i know the 400 head should have holes between cylinders.im trying to build my motor and i have some heads off a 350 and a 305 they look the same???
     
  16. ANDEREGG TRIBUTE
    Joined: Jan 1, 2008
    Posts: 1,385

    ANDEREGG TRIBUTE
    Member
    from Bordertown

    True 305 are usually 58cc and camel humps are usually 64cc...smog 350 heads are 76cc
     
  17. mart3406
    Joined: May 31, 2009
    Posts: 3,055

    mart3406
    Member
    from Canada

    ----------------------------
    Don't let them raz you about the 5-spd.
    That's a whole lot of cam to be running
    in 9 to 1 compression 283. It'll rev like
    an SOB, but it's also gonna' absolutely
    kill any semblance of torque below
    3000 rpm. I think you'll *need* the
    low first gear ratio and the 'still nearly
    as good as a regular 4-spd
    ' gear
    spread in the other 4 gears to work
    with that cam. Another concern is the
    double-bump heads you're thinking of
    using. Most of them were *nominally*
    spec'd at 64 CC's -(with some of the
    later castings nominally spec'd at
    upwards of 68 to 70 CC's too!) -which
    means that unless your heads have been
    milled at least a bit to blueprint them and
    bring the combustion chamber volume
    down to the factory 'advertised' 64CC
    specs, that they're most likely several
    CC's bigger than that even. Even set at
    the factory advertised "64 CC minimum"
    spec, they're going to lower the compression
    probably about a full point below the already
    marginal 9.25 to 1 (nominal) compression
    ratio for the 195-hp 283's! And the cam you're
    using is going to bleed off still more cylinder
    pressure too. 'Back in the day' I used 1.94/1.50
    valve double-bump heads on flat-top 283's
    because that was that's what was available and
    about the best we could do back then - but
    nowadays, I'd definitely use the small chamber
    (57 to 58 cc??) 305 heads - and even then,
    especially for a 'cammed-up' flat-top 283 and
    305 heads, I'd probably still mill them about .030.
    too. By the way, with a .504 lift cam - even with
    flat-top pistons, I'd also definitely do a trial
    assembly and 'clay' the pistons to check for piston
    to valve clearance. You might be ok or you might
    not, but the clearance is gonna' be real close. And
    if the heads you use have ever been milled and/or
    the block was decked at one time or another and/or
    you ever float the valves, you could be in trouble.
    Better to check and set your clearances now than
    wish you had later.

    Mart3406
    ==============================
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2011
  18. cruzr
    Joined: Jan 19, 2006
    Posts: 3,127

    cruzr
    Member

    I run a bone stock 64 283 in my coupe, it has the power pack heads,and 3x2's. It haul ass in a light little A coupe
     
  19. fleetside66
    Joined: Nov 20, 2006
    Posts: 3,003

    fleetside66
    Member

    I'm running an unrebuilt '65 283 stocker in my light '33 pickup & there's enough torque & power to push the thing sideways at the blink of an eye. It's just perfect for the street...what a sweet little motor.
     
  20. 290 int/300 exh dur- Are these at .050? If so that's a monster cam, especially for a 283.
     
  21. racer32
    Joined: Sep 22, 2007
    Posts: 745

    racer32
    Member

    You need a smaller cam!With double-humps and that cam you'll need domed pistons, LOADS of compression, and you will have to scream the engine just to get it to move off the line.

    Ditch the 461's and find a set of "Power Pack" heads, 896 castings. Give them a mild pocket port and replace the 1.72 intakes with 1.84's, and you'll have SOME bottom-end torque.

    Buy this cam kit with the Melling MTC1 option: http://www.northernautoparts.com/ProductModelDetail.cfm?ProductModelId=1603.

    Get yourself an older dual-plane intake with the oil-filler tube, a set of Corvette, Cal Custom, or chromed Chevrolet script valve covers with no holes, 2 1/2" Ram's Horn exhaust manifolds (Dorman sells repros), and a small vacuum secondary carb.

    Add a Pertronix unit to the stock distributor, and you'll have a nice little motor that's gonna get you down the road looking like it came right outta the 60's. It'll pull plenty hard (don't let the mild cam fool you-283's don't need big cams) and get reasonable fuel mileage.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2011
  22. CJS
    Joined: Dec 1, 2010
    Posts: 88

    CJS
    Member

    I'll second racer32 on his ideas. Thats how to do it. The best way to ruin a 283 is to over cam it. 202 intake valves don't seem to help. A 500 cfm 2 barrel carb or 600 cfm Holley 4 barrel would be about right. Some guys will like to argue this one but unleaded gas has been around for 40 years now and I have yet to see the need for hardened valve seats installed unless the engine is in a heavy car or pickup. Light weight cars don't get the valve seat area that hot causing early wear. Just my opinion.
     
  23. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 55,945

    squirrel
    Member

    Good to see more guys coming on board with the PP head concept. Now he just needs to find an early intake....

    I gotta give people crap about 5 speeds, it's in my blood. Don't get me wrong, a 5 speed is a great transmission for a hondacar or a toyopet. But this IS a traditional rodding board, isn't it? and this is a light car with a decent sized engine? A 3 speed should be fine, 4 speed would be perfect. Three gears is what most 283s originally had behind them, except for the slushbox rides that had a 2 speed auto.
     
  24. wheelsup56
    Joined: Mar 26, 2009
    Posts: 107

    wheelsup56
    Member
    from so.jersey

    That cam is too big. Had the same cam..(esp. duration wise at .050)it will have soggy low end. makes power only after 2500 and goes like a bat out of hell. It will make such lil vacuum that a WCFB , 4 GC wont work unless the power valve can be talored to accomdate the low vacuum. Not knowing what carb(s) your running, a Holley is the only carb I know that you can change the power valve to keep the enging from running too rich. I have a 2.5 in PV in mine and thats the only way I got it to idle below 1500 RPM. With the 4 speed and the 3.36 gears makes it impossible to drive unless you put in 488s to keep the RPMs up for the cam to work in that motor. Well basically its shoving 10lbs of crap in a 5 lb bag. So watch your duration at .050 also. I made the same mistake. I just thew in that cam because it was for free and now im paying the price for not doing the reserch. just my 2 cents.
     
  25. ANDEREGG TRIBUTE
    Joined: Jan 1, 2008
    Posts: 1,385

    ANDEREGG TRIBUTE
    Member
    from Bordertown

    Thanks guys..this place is great. I appreciate all the time and experience.
     
  26. Gizzy
    Joined: Jan 20, 2008
    Posts: 761

    Gizzy
    Member
    from N.W,Ohio

    I've got a 283 with the 461 heads.My engine guru told me the same thing,loose em'Compression will be too low.I'm going with 305's.
     
  27. fiveohnick2932
    Joined: Mar 29, 2006
    Posts: 918

    fiveohnick2932
    Member
    from Napa, Ca.

    I know you "like" that cam you want to use but I think you will hate driving it. With a small motor and such a large cam and tight LSA that motor will be pretty worthless below 3000 rpms. Most engines do their driving at under 3000, so why would you want to have less power where you use the engine the most. I think you can achieve the same bitchin sound and gain more power and torque by choosing a smaller cam. That speedway cam is oval track cam and oval track cams are designed to be used from 3000 up and in a motor with lots of compression.
    If this was my motor I would go for the Comp XS268S cam. 1600-6000, 268/274, 230/236 @ .050, .488/.501 lift and 110 LSA. Has better low end and still would have no problem hitting 6000. If you want to really stick with a high duration cam I would point you toward the Comp Nostalgia Plus N+30-30S cam. Its one of Comps alternatives for the Duntov 30/30 cam. Specs are 2300-6900, 284/291, 247/254 @.050, .504/.498 and (here is why im recommending this cam over the speedway cam) 112 LSA. The wider LSA of 112 should make it more drivable than the speedway cams 106 LSA. You have to remember you want to use a t-5 and the whole point of using a t-5 is to use the overdrive to keep the rpms down while on the hwy. Oval track cams dont like having their rpms reduced because thats the opposite direction from their power production. Dont let the description fool you when it says excellent low end torque because that low end they are referring to is more like 4000. Just my 2 cents!
     
  28. ANDEREGG TRIBUTE
    Joined: Jan 1, 2008
    Posts: 1,385

    ANDEREGG TRIBUTE
    Member
    from Bordertown

    fiveonick....thanks for the input, I am currently checking out Summit and those are roughly the cams Ive been looking at. I definately see everybodys point regarding the cam. I bought it originally for my dirt track car, and then it saw a few years in my Chevelle on the street with 3.08 high gear final, and shorter tires than the roadster will use, so it wasnt too bad and sounded great at idle. Driveability obviously is foremost, but damn I love a lopey cam and the racket that solid lifters make....That says "HOT ROD"
     
  29. fiveohnick2932
    Joined: Mar 29, 2006
    Posts: 918

    fiveohnick2932
    Member
    from Napa, Ca.

    Solids kick ass!
     
  30. racer32
    Joined: Sep 22, 2007
    Posts: 745

    racer32
    Member

    Shoulda said you wanted solids:

    Mellling P/N's
    22400: -140 Offroad
    22410: Duntov 30/30
    22450: -754 Offroad

    Elgin P/N's
    E-901-P: Duntov 30/30
    E-902-P: -140 Offroad
    E-917-P: -754 Offroad

    Speed Pro P/N's
    CS-118R: Duntov 30/30
    CS-1179R: -140 Offroad
    CS-1108R: -754 Offroad

    Clevite P/N's
    229-1612: Duntov 30/30
    229-1622: -140 Offroad
    229-2294: -754 Offroad

    Here's my thought on this engine...ALL the solid cams above are too big for a street-friendly 283.If I was building it I'd stick with the Duntov 097 grind if I wanted solids. I don't HAVE to have solids, so I've got a Speed Pro version of the cheapo Melling I posted earlier...got it REALLY cheap, otherwise I would ahve bought the cam/lifter/chain in the link I posted.

    You don't need lots of lift...especially with the Power Pack heads, because they drop off in flow above around .450 or so without MAJOR port work. If your goal is to build a "traditional" 283 with solid lifters it's GOT to have PP heads! There's no reason to go any bigger than about 220 duration @ .050 and .450 lift for a street 283. You could make higher hp and use a bigger cam with better heads, but if you're gonna put later heads with drilled ends, you might as well build something besides a 283.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2011

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