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History Schooler Cams Dragster

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by realsteel1934, Dec 11, 2009.

  1. realsteel1934
    Joined: Aug 26, 2009
    Posts: 125

    realsteel1934
    Member
    from usa

    Wanted info on history of 1958 GMC 6 cyl sling shot Dragster
    Cowl pannels have traces of orig. lettering on them ( Schooler Cams JAX FLA )
    Ran D/D driver Beidle All engine components engraved Beidle
    Lots of trick stuff done to block and heads.90% of the dragster was orig. so we had a lot of history avl. as we took it apart.

    Chassie -- trans -- and rear end all done getting ready to paint the frame next .still not sure if we will show it with orig. alm.panels or reproduce them and save the org. to display with it. opinions ??

    At this point we want to retrace its history --- Help !!!!!

    Owner I bought from had in his garage 10 years and knows nothing about it. purchaced in Fla by me 2 years ago . Thanks Kevin :cool:
     
  2. pictures and welcome to the HAMB.
     
  3. Salty
    Joined: Jul 24, 2006
    Posts: 2,259

    Salty
    Member
    from Florida

    Need pics....I know lots of the old car guys round here that may know somethin or may know where or who to go too to find something...
     
  4. Tim Cowan
    Joined: Jan 3, 2009
    Posts: 41

    Tim Cowan
    Member

    I knew John Schooler and lived about two miles from his shop and home. He died probably 30 years ago. His wife used to work with dad at the Naval Air Base and they are both gone. The shop was taken over by a co-worker, Frank Konnin and he has now passed away and the shop is gone. John Schooler told me and a friend that it is a fact that Ed Iskiderian (Isky Cams) did copy a Schooler cam in the production of the 5 Cycle cam. He had some fine works for what he thought of Isky. John Schooler, Frank Konnin, and Speedy Speirs are all in the Jacksonville Raceways StockCar Hall of Fame. Schooler was German and the Hall of Fame couldn't get muck info on him at his induction. No birth dates or even a death date. They had no children. Speedy Speirs, in Jacksonville, would be a good contact for he used Schooler cams and so did Ray Fox, at Daytona Beach in early NASCAR. I think the hotshoe dragster was Raymond Beidle and I use to deliver parts to his machine shop in North Jax near the zoo. Schooler Cams were BIG in the 50-70's and had a decal logo of Torque, Not Talk. He was an ace cam grinder and always had a lot to say. When he died a lot of stories went out the window.
     

  5. realsteel1934
    Joined: Aug 26, 2009
    Posts: 125

    realsteel1934
    Member
    from usa

    Tim
    Thanks for the reply !!! I just went out and took some phots to post . as we started to dust off the top pannel on cowl we found what was left of class champion Daytona Beach Winternationals . another great find!! Now we need to trace the year ??? Help anyone. Photos to follow
     

    Attached Files:

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  6. realsteel1934
    Joined: Aug 26, 2009
    Posts: 125

    realsteel1934
    Member
    from usa

    To all
    More photos
     

    Attached Files:

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  7. realsteel1934
    Joined: Aug 26, 2009
    Posts: 125

    realsteel1934
    Member
    from usa

    And more photos
     

    Attached Files:

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  8. realsteel1934
    Joined: Aug 26, 2009
    Posts: 125

    realsteel1934
    Member
    from usa

    And 2 more!
     

    Attached Files:

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  9. Tim Cowan
    Joined: Jan 3, 2009
    Posts: 41

    Tim Cowan
    Member

    The local dragstrip of that day was "Thunderbolt Drag Strip" located outside Orange Park towards Green Cove Springs in Clay county just south of Jacksonville. It was used in earlier days as an augzillery air strip for the Naval Air Station near the St. Johns River called Flemming Island. It is now filled with homes and stores. I used to be a "coolie on the crew" of a blown Chrysler Hemi rail owned by Eddie Hall and I was a teenager. I have dim memories of your racer, but do remember it.
    I never went to the drags at Daytona then but the strip called Spruce Creek, or it was located at Spruce Creek. I think it was also an old militarty air strip and was also used for NASCAR testing when they still had the beach races. The beach races ended after 1958.
    More on Schooler.......Ray Fox built and owned the Junior Johnson car, winner of the 1960 Daytona 500. It was a 1959 Chevy,348" racer built in less than two weeks before the race. Ray used John Schooler cams and he put 3 cams in the engine before he could get it to stay up with the factory Pontiacs. You call or hunt up Ray Fox, president of The Living Legends of Auto Racing of Daytona. I am a member of LLOAR, Jax Raceways Hall of Fame, and Georgia Auto Racing hall of Fame Assc. I may find you some phone numbers if you need me to. Ray could tell you more about Spruce Creek as a test area in his hayday.
     
  10. Tim Cowan
    Joined: Jan 3, 2009
    Posts: 41

    Tim Cowan
    Member

    Another thought just crossed my mind, I'm in my mid-sixtys now any that seems to be a trend with my head. I live about 40 miles from the Talladega Superspeedway and they have the ultimate musemum at the Motorsports Hall of Fame operated by Betty Carlin. If you happen to be this way check it out. You may give them a call and let them help on finding more info on your car.
     
  11. realsteel1934
    Joined: Aug 26, 2009
    Posts: 125

    realsteel1934
    Member
    from usa

    Great stuff !! thanks for getting back to me.we are trying to get as much history as possible Want to show the car at Amelia Island in the near future. Keep it comming.
    Thanks Kevin
     
  12. Tim Cowan
    Joined: Jan 3, 2009
    Posts: 41

    Tim Cowan
    Member

    Fernandina Beach is on Amelia Island and there was another old air field there probably only a few miles of where you will be meeting near the Intercoastal Waterway. I went to drags there in the late 50's or early sixties and I bet you car was there, too. As you leave Amelia Island, if you go south on A1A to the ferry crossing the St. Johns River, the road going west toward Jacksonville is Hecksher Drive, just before getting to I-95 and the zoo, Beidle's shop building was located on the right. Also if getting to Florida, visit the Don "Big Daddy" Gartlis Museum at Ocala. I haven't been there but I hear you can spend a day to see the stuff for drag racing history. He ought to have info on your car. Also I was at Fernandina Beach races when Big Daddy was running.Check him out for a web site. Check out www.livinglegendsofautoracing.com,www.jacksonvillestockcarracinghalloffame.com, Give a call to Ronnie Rohn 904-237-4811 in Jacksonville hall of Fame President and ask about Jay Peoples, Morris Herbert, or Speedy Spiers for more leads.
     
  13. auburnweedkiller
    Joined: May 7, 2007
    Posts: 1

    auburnweedkiller
    Member

    The car was owned by a fellow which last name was Beidencap (spelling might be wrong)
    that
    owned an automotive machine shop on N Main St. in jacksonville
    Call Freddy Fillingham at904-693-9363 as he worked on car. Dave Workman 904-487-8202 Hope this helps!
     
  14. realsteel1934
    Joined: Aug 26, 2009
    Posts: 125

    realsteel1934
    Member
    from usa

    Thank's to all for the leeds will chase them down and post results .Kevin
     
  15. hugh m
    Joined: Jul 18, 2007
    Posts: 2,143

    hugh m
    Member
    from ct.

    Neat car, sounds like some nice history too. Where are you in Ct.?
     
  16. Tim Cowan
    Joined: Jan 3, 2009
    Posts: 41

    Tim Cowan
    Member

    Hey Kevin, here are a few numbers and people that may be a help ( directory is 10 years old) George Collins, Jax Racing Historian home 904-282-6472 or wk# 904-282-3102; Mike Bell, GA Racing Historian, raised in north Jax, 404-321-6194; Betty Carlan, Talladega Hall of Fame Library Manager, home phone 205-362-5047(area code might be changed to 256), Speedy Spiers, former car owner,904-223-1333; Morris Herbert, racer-car owner,machinist, north Jax, 904-768-8889 ( ask him about Austin Browning, maybe a good contact on Schooler) The fellow that worked with John Schooler was Frank Conken, I spelled it wrong. He died in 1998. Also ask about Jay Peoples, he ran super stocks about this same period. Good Luck. TIM COWAN 256-447-8369
     
  17. realsteel1934
    Joined: Aug 26, 2009
    Posts: 125

    realsteel1934
    Member
    from usa

    Brookfield Ct Kevin
     
  18. realsteel1934
    Joined: Aug 26, 2009
    Posts: 125

    realsteel1934
    Member
    from usa

    Tim
    Thanks again for all your help.Yesterday spent about half hour on the phone with Freddy Fillingham . He remembers running against the 6cyl when it was in a coupe first. He told me he was glad when Beidle switched to running it in the dragster he built-- this took him out of Freddys class.

    He told me the rail would come out of the hole with the wheels in the air and the 5 97s on the custom manifold with the zoomy headers made it sound like a mad bee hive---very distinct sound .

    We are going to work out a get together of as many guys as I can find and invite all down to Amelia Island in March of 2011 When we show the car for the first time.

    looks like I have a lot of leeds to work on thanks to your help.

    Keep you posted --Kevin:cool:
     
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  19. Tim Cowan
    Joined: Jan 3, 2009
    Posts: 41

    Tim Cowan
    Member


    Hey Kevin; I'm still digging, its hard to stir the pot after 45 to 50 years ago, Here is an e-mail I got that might be a pot of gold on information on your rail. When is the Forida meet dates? I might tell my wife we need to go see the azaleas blooming for she could care less about the cars.
    Modified Moody-This email is from a fellow (Johnny Vercher) who balances engines in Jax, FL. I met him thru Alan. He was going to post something on the HAMB last week but I guess he was unsuccessful. You might want to copy & paste his comments into a fresh post on HAMB.





    -----Original Message-----
    From: jbvercher <jbvercher@comcast.net>
    To: gbucky7093@aol.com
    Sent: Fri, Dec 18, 2009 9:44 pm
    Subject: Re: Schooler Cams & Dragster Postings

    Ther is a guy in Jax by the name of George Tillitson that used to tech for NHRA with John Biedenkapp. I had coffee with him on Dec 15 and he told me that he had driven the 6 cyl dragster. George has a 409 62 Bel Air and I balance for him ever so often. His number is 904 781-8386 (cell 904 655-4689) and he probably has more info on John Biedenkapp and the Dragster than anyone else.

    Johnny B. Maybe this will be a good connect.......TIM (Moody) COWAN
    -----
     
  20. blackrat40
    Joined: Apr 19, 2006
    Posts: 1,167

    blackrat40
    Member

    You probably already know this but the chassis looks just like a Scotty Fenn
    Chassis Research dragster that I had in the early 60's.
     
  21. 2 things...yes it is a TE-440 Chassis Research frame, BUT the front crossmember has been modified. With the first series the 4 tubes came together with a rubber snubber acting as the suspension. NHRA outlawed that design, so Scotty went with a more conventional perch and cross spring. The second design has parallel rails welded to a wider crossmember. These were known as TE-448. You can see the difference in the attached photos.
    Your car is somewhere in between the two. I suspect it's an early frame, with a modified front perch to stay legal. It looks like your frame is missing the smaller top rail that ran parallel to the main tube. As Chassis Research sold lots of U-Weld-It kits, these were often left off.
    There is a HAMB social group with tons of photos. Check it out.

    Second: NASCAR ran Winter National events for a couple years in Florida. Best I can remember they were between 1959 and 1962. Ed Eaton had been the Eastern NHRA Division Director, but left Wally and talked Bill France into getting into Drag Racing.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Dec 21, 2009
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  22. KING CHASSIS
    Joined: Aug 28, 2005
    Posts: 1,866

    KING CHASSIS
    Member

  23. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 27,944

    The37Kid
    Member

    I've known Kevin since the late 1960's, and know the car will get a great restoration. Just stopped in today to see it, not knowing about all the history that the HAMB has turned up on the car. The original manifolds look great to me with the original welds of the day. New body panels and preserved originals would be the way to go IMO. I'm sure the restoration will be finished before my Lyndwood..........but I want a match race some Sunday in front of the shop. Best wishes, Bob
     
  24. realsteel1934
    Joined: Aug 26, 2009
    Posts: 125

    realsteel1934
    Member
    from usa

    Rich
    Thanks for the info and photos of the chassie forgot about this post over the past month and just looked at it again and just noticed your post Thanks again.

    37 kid your on !!!
     
  25. Kevin,

    If you need some Chassis Research shock arms and mounts I have them.

    Dennis
     
  26. Ski Markowski
    Joined: Jul 2, 2010
    Posts: 2

    Ski Markowski
    Member
    from Apopka, FL

    My name is “Ski” Markowski. Back in the mid to late 50’s I was approached by a shipmate of mine, Herb Kuebler” and was asked if I would be interested in volunteering to do some work on a race car.
    I was introduced to a an ‘ol’ mechanic named Red Moore who had a junk yard on Normandy Blvd in Jacksonville, Fl. It was near Herlong Field but later moved further out Normandy Blvd closer to the Cecil Field Naval Air Station. Both Herb and I were stationed at Cecil Field in the Navy and we were career oriented. We were both aircraft engine mechanics.
    We commenced working on the car, I being a fledgeling engine mechanic and Herb did most of the body work. I believed the car was a 32 something or other and we also had a 5 window coupe. Our driver, who hung around the garage and convinced Red Moore he should drive was Leeroy Yarbrough.
    After I finished assembling the 348 GM engine, Red would do the final adjustments to timing. We also had a gentlemen named John Schooler who came out to the garage, listened to the engine and recommended a cam that he thought would give the engine more power. It took three tries. Any one looking for a John Schooler Decal might search the local Jacksonville papers around the late 50’s and look for Leeroy’s car, No 39. I’m quite sure there is a Schooler Decal on it. I had a lot of pictures. They were all slides and I lost 80% during my Navy transfers.
    Little did anyone know that we had the 348 bored out to 4.25 and at that particular time we were running three two barrels. I had taken apart the carbs and reamed the main metering jets about .005 over their spec. I believe the carbs were Stromberg 97’s. The follwing year they made us switch to four barrels.
    All this was being done between races and Leeroy showed that he could definitely drive. The first year went rather slow. But in later years we won the Southeastern Dirt track Championship two tears in a row. We raced at Speedway park in Jax, Waycross, Ga and Baxley, Ga.
    In one of the races in Waycross, GA a left front axle broke and the tire and wheel went racing off to the stands. The crowd roared. Leeroy came down the straight-away with the brake backing plate plowing a furrow. We signaled him to Rev the engine and the torque of the engine lifted that front wheel up. Our nearest competitor was only a few feet away and that’s as close as he got. Leeroy went on to win the race on three wheels.
     
  27. Tim Cowan
    Joined: Jan 3, 2009
    Posts: 41

    Tim Cowan
    Member

    Welcome to H.A.M.B. from a fellow that has stomped where your shoes have stomped. I hung around the race shops and worked a few machine shops in your era. I saw Lee Roy race when he started hobby cars one year and advanced to modifieds the next and never looked back. I was in the Naval Air Reserve from 66-71 and worked at NAS & Cecil Field,VA-721 as an aviation hydrulic mechanic. Weekends would find me at Jax. Speedway Park, Pecan Park, Barberville, Lake City, Waycross, and Valdosta tracks. I moved to Piedmont, AL in early 1978. My best memories are of days and nights spent at the round dirt tracks. Visits to the shop of John Schooler and to hear his stories were golden. I worked at garages, auto parts, and machine shops before settling down at the phone company garage until moving to AL and being a phoneman.
     
  28. workingmans
    Joined: Oct 22, 2010
    Posts: 3

    workingmans
    Member

    well if you worked for red then you know my father david. ski
     
  29. realsteel1934
    Joined: Aug 26, 2009
    Posts: 125

    realsteel1934
    Member
    from usa

    Just looked up my old post and was suprised to find that more history has surfaced !!! Keep it coming .this summer has been tuff to find time from my bus to follow the action on the HAMB but I promise we will start posting progress photos next month on the restoration.
     
  30. realsteel1934
    Joined: Aug 26, 2009
    Posts: 125

    realsteel1934
    Member
    from usa

    Can't belive its coming up on 4 years that I have not looked at this post.Lost intrest in finishing this one as some new projects moved front and center. Not to mention family health issues.

    However I did pull all the stuff out agin the other day. This year its time to get it put togeather. I promiss I will post some photos as I progress.

    If anyone has any info to share please let me know.

    Thanks Kevin
     

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