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School me on I.R.S.

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Pir8Darryl, Feb 5, 2009.

  1. Racewriter
    Joined: Nov 14, 2008
    Posts: 780


    Probably about a week after the first '63 Vette got totaled.:D

    One of the nice things about IRS swaps nowadays is that many of the donor cars can be had dirt cheap. Jag XJ6's up through 1987 (those are the ones that have the double coilover setup) can be found as parts cars for under a grand. Look around, and the IRS T-birds and Cougars can be had for half that, or less. The Jag front suspensions are an easy swap, too. All of those cars tend to have "rode hard and put away wet" syndrome, and by now, they're salvage yard material. Cheaper than a prepped 9" Ford nowadays.
  2. bluebolt
    Joined: Jan 9, 2008
    Posts: 309

    from Benton LA

    I had a hunch it was Jaguar, pretty sure I am right but I have never actually had one. Here's a few jag pics.

    Attached Files:

  3. scootermcrad
    Joined: Sep 20, 2005
    Posts: 12,375


    Yep! That looks correct! Good eye! Any guesses on the year(s)?
  4. Flipper
    Joined: May 10, 2003
    Posts: 3,342

    from Kentucky

    The one posted earlier has bosses near the pinion seal. The jag doesn't.
  5. Keep
    Joined: May 10, 2008
    Posts: 662


    If you clean up the lower tabs under the cover you should see the year stamped into the housing, mine was on the left side looking at the rear. Also there should be a tag on one of the bolts that has the gear ratio.
  6. bluebolt
    Joined: Jan 9, 2008
    Posts: 309

    from Benton LA

    Yeah I noticed that too, maybe a diiferent year jag like one of the later ones? There is a 80's jag in the junkyard maybe I need to go check it out next time I am there. I tried to find a pic of an original 427 Cobra center section but no luck.
  7. T McG
    Joined: Feb 12, 2005
    Posts: 1,262

    T McG
    from Phoenix

    Lots of choices from newer cars as shown. Off the shelf you have Heidts and Kugel as the main ones, and Speedway Engineering in Cali makes a killer looking quick change IRS. I have installed all of these three and they are all superb, although expensive. Kugel is very high tech, while Heidts does have more of an older look similar to the Corvette. Both Heidts and Kugel use 9" Ford innards.
  8. panic
    Joined: Jan 3, 2004
    Posts: 1,450


    The only thing that would differentiate it from a Genuine one is...there are no genuine ones left

    Well, that, and the fact that the original engine is completely different: in-line 8 cylinder desmo.
  9. Pir8Darryl
    Joined: Jan 9, 2008
    Posts: 2,488


    Years ago, Bob Dupin [google him] told me that Mopar ~was~ going to have every car they sold equiped with 4 wheel discs and 4 wheel independent suspension starting in 1957. From the lowliest base model Dodge, all the way up to the 300 and imperial, but once their research revealed that the consumers would not have appreciated it in any way, they backed away from the idea sharply.

    I dont know if it's true, but comming from Bob himself, I would tend to believe it.
  10. Jag rears were popular. Corvette IRS can be transplanted into some cars. The Corvettes from the late '60s and '70s have a transverse mounted leaf spring. The earlier years had a steel spring pack, but I think some of the later years went to a carbon fiber or fiberglass composite leaf spring.
  11. metalman
    Joined: Dec 30, 2006
    Posts: 3,286


    I remember a lot of Jag Rear axles under hot rods in the 70's, it always bugged me that 90% of them was running a straight axle in the front, back-assward of Detroit I always thought.
  12. Although I'll concede that in this day & age, a Jag IRS in a Hot Rod pretty much makes it a "Street Rod" ... the argument can be made that they aren't totally off-topic for the H.A.M.B. ...

    San Jose Roadster Club members Les Erben & Joe Cardoza are credited with being the first Rodders to ever put a Jag IRS in a Hot Rod (their '28 & '29 roadsters) ... circa '66-'67! ... and Jerry Kugel credits Cardoza with the inspiration to put a full Jaguar suspension under his own '32 Roadster ... circa '68-'69!

    Here's some pics of Joe Cardoza's '29 RPU throughout the years:

    1969 - from page 74 of the January '69 issue of HOT ROD Magazine

    1972 - Parked next to Tom Prufer's highboy @ Andy's Picnic

    1986 - Bay Area Roadsters Picnic @ Dennis Varni's house (Joe's been a member of BAR since 1976)

    January 2009 - Bay Area Roadsters 50th Anniversary display @ the 60th GNRS
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2015
  13. In the early 80s, Pepper Snow & Ronnie White (Snow-White) setup the chassis for our '32 Roadster:





    30+ years later and Snow-White, Ltd. (Fresno, CA) is still at it ... manufacturing a bunch of quality products ... including a great rubber mounted cross member kit for Jag IRS.

    The Snow-White, Ltd. website has some pretty cool picture galleries ... including one with photos of some of the Jag Chassis' they have built throughout the years ... just click HERE.
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2009
    thunderbirdesq likes this.
  14. metalshapes
    Joined: Nov 18, 2002
    Posts: 10,726

    Tech Editor

    The Odd Rod had swingaxle IRS.

    And Fangio ( later a Grand Prix World Champion ) built a couple of Road Race Chevy's that had DeDion rears
    ( A DeDion isnt IRS, but I thought it was cool to mention, because as far as I know these were mostly built out of regular parts that were available at the time...)

    Attached Files:

  15. Pir8Darryl
    Joined: Jan 9, 2008
    Posts: 2,488


    Joe's RPU is a beautifull piece of work. Tho it oficialy missed the HAMB's cut off date by a couple years, IMHO, it looks as traditional a build as they come.

    Turbo's are another one of those border line topics here. I see it went from the webbers to a single hair dryer, to dual turbos. I would enjoy hearing more about that as well.

    It would appear that Joe has always been on the cutting edge of the hobby. My hat's off to him for being such a pioneer.

    Your '32 roadster chassis is some real eye candy. I'm really digging the older traditional ques of the way the frame was set up, along with the cutting edge suspension. Were that chassis to be built today, it would have been boxed, and the entire X-member would have been made of chromolly tubing... Just a wonderfully eclectic mix of old and new... It just screams "the 70's".

    I see they set yours up with some mile long trailing arms. Was this done out of nessecity as per the frame layout, or is there any bebefit to subjecting the rear suspension to a "long arc" like that over the factory's short arc?

    Keep the info comming guys. I'm enjoying it and learning a great deal!
  16. Pez
    Joined: Jul 16, 2008
    Posts: 84


  17. Phil1934
    Joined: Jun 24, 2001
    Posts: 2,717


    The mounting brackets for the Jag lower arms come in different angles to allow different pinion angle from 0* to 3* or 6*.
  18. The factory set them up with the arms parallel to the chassis rails.
    They could do that because the whole rear end and cage that holds it, is floating.
    Once you solid mount the diff head things change.
    A triangulated system is then required with the arms coming into a point in line with the inner pivot point of the control arms.
    Plenty of info around about why etc.

    See link on post 47
  19. zman
    Joined: Apr 2, 2001
    Posts: 16,594

    from Garner, NC

    what cut off date are you talking about? There is none, only in the classifieds. Though this should help...

    The HAMB is dedicated to spreading the gospel of traditional hot rods and kustoms to hoodlums world wide. That’s right – TRADITIONAL. And we aren’t talking Beach Boys and poodle skirts here fellas. If you are into a-side 50’s pop, lawn chairs, ruler contests, and all things that make hot rodding warm and cozy then you might want to find another message board. If you aren’t sure what we mean by “traditional”, then you might think twice as well.

    If it looks and smells traditional, chances are it's ok.
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2009
  20. zibo
    Joined: Mar 17, 2002
    Posts: 2,346

    from dago ca

    over a year ago we put a '75 mercedes rearend in a friends 30 roadster.
    It is a pretty neat design, ugly though but very simple and strong.
    Has disc brakes, CV-joint axles, chevy lug measurements. 2.7? rearend ratio.
    Also the width was perfect for this body.


  21. Pir8Darryl,

    Although Joe didn't put the Jag IRS in his RPU until '67 or '68, I believe he was driving the car well before that ... Joe was one of the four founding members of the San Jose Roadsters ... which was established in 1961.

    There's no doubt in my mind that Joe is a "traditional" Hot Rodder ... If you need more evidence of this, then just checkout the feature on his belly-tank dragster that appeared on pages 42 & 43 of the March 1955 issue of HOT ROD magazine.

    I posted those 4 pics of Joe's RPU to illustrate how his RPU has evolved through the years ... and to point out that Joe is quite the innovator (rather than a follower) ... like you said: "on the cutting edge of the hobby" and "a pioneer".
  22. Pir8Darryl,

    I posted the pics of our '32 Roadster's Snow-White Jag chassis simply to illustrate how Jag IRS & IFS were done in the 70s & 80s ... knowing full well that the car was totally off-topic for the H.A.M.B. ... more info & pics of that O/T car can be found in my '32 Roadster Album (just click HERE).

    Be sure to checkout that Snow White "Chassis" Photo Gallery link I provided in my post ... lotsa IRS "eye candy" :)
  23. Dirtynails
    Joined: Jan 31, 2009
    Posts: 843

    from garage

    The joy of the Mercedes diff is that they are available with anti dive links (anti squat),disc brakes that are the same part from 1967 thru 1991 and have various ratio's from 4.01 to 2.69 .LSD is pretty common too. Most have the ratio stamped on the housing but the reaar cover comes off and you can measure the teeth. If looking for a LSD,they have a metal tag stamped " Sperrdifferential" .
    They can handle an enormous amount of torque and are usually almost free.
  24. Racewriter
    Joined: Nov 14, 2008
    Posts: 780


    I think, if you look closely, the Cardoza RPU now has a belt driven centrifugal blower, not a turbo.
  25. mongo4u2
    Joined: Apr 1, 2007
    Posts: 160

    from sparta

    there's a richmond magesuim quickchange irs on ebay now, pretty racey
    po ol
  26. Relic Stew
    Joined: Apr 17, 2005
    Posts: 1,152

    Relic Stew
    from Wisconsin

    This is Tom Beatty's belly tanker, circa 1951, with a swing axle rear end. Looks like torque tube pivots in the axle bells.

  27. tommy
    Joined: Mar 3, 2001
    Posts: 14,757

    Member Emeritus

    The coolest one I ever saw in a magazine was an old touring car. Somebody will probably remember it. I think it was had a Halibrand with inboard Buick finned drum brakes. I want to say it had Buffalo style wire wheels that showed off the lack of brakes at the wheels. The car was as traditional as can be. It was a work of art. Dark burgundy maybe? It was 90% hand made. The craftsmanship was amazing. Having the imagination to dream up the design and the talent to execute it just blew me away.
  28. I got to say that while it's not that difficult to fit an IRS to an existing frame,
    It's definately easier if the frame is being made from scratch.
    Take a look at this simple chassis using Michelotti arms and an LS1;

    If building a new chassis, building it as a IRS from the start could be used as an advantage in terms of 'keeping things simple', and some wieght saving if done right.
  29. Brickster
    Joined: Nov 23, 2003
    Posts: 1,131


    the Shelby diff is a Dana 44. The housing, axles, mounts, flanges are all Shelby parts. The gears, bearings, seals, cover, and diff is regular Dana 44.
  30. 1950ChevySuburban
    Joined: Dec 20, 2006
    Posts: 6,188

    Member Emeritus
    from Tucson AZ

    I got such a good deal on my '85 Vette IRS, I couldn't pass it up. Good thing too, 'cause it really rides nice!
    It's certainly not traditional, but its not on a '32 roadster either.

    Spent all of a Saturday and half of a Sunday measuring and remeasuring fitment. Built the mounts Sunday evening. Welded in place on my stock frame. Working outside on a perfectly level slab. It aligned dead nuts-on!

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