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School me on I.R.S.

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Pir8Darryl, Feb 5, 2009.

  1. Pir8Darryl
    Joined: Jan 9, 2008
    Posts: 2,490

    Pir8Darryl
    Member

    Just trying to fight this latest round of cabin feever, not really planning anything, but I have been curious for a long time.

    Someone school me on independent rear suspension. What's popular? The good and the bad, best setup? Strongest? Best support, both factory and aftermarket.

    Thanks guys :)
     
  2. Pir8Darryl
    Joined: Jan 9, 2008
    Posts: 2,490

    Pir8Darryl
    Member

    Wow! Have I managed to stump the all knowing HAMB????

    Helloooo???

    cricket

    cricket

    cricket

    cricket
     
  3. TimDavis
    Joined: Sep 4, 2005
    Posts: 716

    TimDavis
    Member

    Independent rear suspension? Really? on this board?
     
  4. wedgeii1
    Joined: Apr 24, 2006
    Posts: 552

    wedgeii1
    Member
    from california

    I hate the IRS!
     
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  5. rustysconny
    Joined: Sep 14, 2005
    Posts: 66

    rustysconny
    Member

  6. Steves32
    Joined: Aug 28, 2007
    Posts: 1,280

    Steves32
    Member
    from So Cal

    Are you talkin' Jag or Kugel stuff? Probably a little too street rod for this room. I will say at one point- I had a 34 Roadster w/ a Kugel rear- all bling billet polished everything. 4 wheel independent does ride nice though, Also had an Alloway Speedstar w/ a blown 496- definately not for this forum.:eek:
     
  7. Pir8Darryl
    Joined: Jan 9, 2008
    Posts: 2,490

    Pir8Darryl
    Member

    Yep,,, really... On this board.
    I never said I wanted to put it under a '32 roadster ~goldchainer style~

    Just looking for info. Trying to expand my knowledge on an otherwise boaring cold winters night.
     
  8. J Man
    Joined: Dec 11, 2003
    Posts: 4,111

    J Man
    Member

    There was a thread not too long ago that was closed. I think I Mustang or Explorer would be a easy one to use since not as many Jags around anymore. I know of people that have used RX7 or 300Z IRS in mini trucks. I would assime a CTS, Solstice setup could work.

    There is always the Corvair and Tempest IRS, would those be traditional?
     
  9. Dirtynails
    Joined: Jan 31, 2009
    Posts: 844

    Dirtynails
    Member
    from garage

    1952 technology built in 2008.
    [​IMG]

    Mercedes W196
     
  10. spaceship
    Joined: Feb 2, 2009
    Posts: 36

    spaceship
    Member
    from Georgia

    I am running a 200r rear end from a 78 nissan under my 47' studebaker and love it! It was cheap like $250 cheap has a posi and disc brakes!!! the truck has a 318 police motor and a 727 torqueflite no problem handling it...I know its not a lot power but probally around 250hp to the rear end.
     
  11. IRS has many good points,
    Easy to narrow, comes apart in to bits that fit in a chrome tank,
    is easy to mount, and gives far better ride than a solid axle.
    Other than the fact that some on this forum might give you a hard time just for mentioning IRS I can't think of a bad point against it.
     
  12. revkev6
    Joined: Jun 13, 2006
    Posts: 3,338

    revkev6
    Member
    from ma

    I remember somebody converted a banjo to IRS with all ford parts back in the 40's. was a super cool setup.

    can't think of who did it just off the top of my head though.....
     
  13. 460 willy
    Joined: Nov 2, 2005
    Posts: 249

    460 willy
    Member
    from wisconsin

    I had a 1953 chevy 5 window truck that had a corvette(1975) IRS in it it drove great but it was not the strongest I had broke a few half shafts on the one side but I was only 14 when it was built and there was not much info on drive line angles and such so there may have been more issues than met the eye. But it was a very easy setup that era vette used a transverse (sp) leaf I have some pics of the truck I will see if I have any of the rear suspension. I drove that truck in highschool and sold it in 95-96
     
  14. Weasel
    Joined: Dec 30, 2007
    Posts: 6,708

    Weasel
    Member

    I have some cast iron side bells with stub axles for a Ford banjo to do this conversion. I also have an old magnesium Halibrand V8 IRS set up complete with cross member for early Ford chassis - the only one known, either of which I may be persuaded to part with - PM me. Note that the magnesium side bells were specifically designed for IRS as they have the suspension pick up points and rear end mounting as part of the casting

    I really don't have a problem with IRS and traditional - they're in a sort of in between zone for me.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  15. scootermcrad
    Joined: Sep 20, 2005
    Posts: 12,290

    scootermcrad
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Actually, you guys that say this is some new-fangled str**t r*d stuff are not up to speed. IRS has been used for years in race cars. Sure, it's not traditional in the sense of what was done by most people, but it's been active in the race world well into the era limits of the HAMB. Like everything else, there is a right and wrong way to accomplish "traditional". Of COURSE Jag and Kugel IRS are not traditional, but there there IS other stuff out there that is.

    Personally, I would like to hear more as well.
     
  16. Flipper
    Joined: May 10, 2003
    Posts: 3,291

    Flipper
    Member
    from Kentucky

    What in the heck is this?

    The trans is TINY !!!

     
  17. scootermcrad
    Joined: Sep 20, 2005
    Posts: 12,290

    scootermcrad
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    WOW! Is this car shown in the picture something that you're restoring, replicating, or is this an orinal race care?

    Totally bitchin car! Doing a search on Google turned up some amazing pictures.

    [​IMG]
     
  18. zman
    Joined: Apr 2, 2001
    Posts: 16,557

    zman
    Member
    from Garner, NC

    Have to disagree there, the Jag rear came along in the early 60's and was pretty much the same until the mid 80's. I have a bunch of magazines from the era that showed them going into hot rods right off the bat... I need to check the exact dates of the mags I know I have some pre 65 ones for sure. So it depends on the era you are going for... but if we go early to mid 60's it definitely fits... But just to help out the Jag rears I have, like the one in my 57 Buick have Dana 44 center sections. Pretty damned stout. And pretty inexpensive to get ahold of. Parts aren't bad. A lot of people bitch about the rear brakes being a pain because they are inboard. But for the most part you really don't mess with them much at all..

    From the JCNA.com
    The Jaguar Independent Rear Suspension was designed in the early 60's and was used without re-design right up to 1987 when the Ser 3 XJ 6 ceased production. Even then, the basic concept of using the halfshafts for the upper control arm was retained. The cage, and the trailing arms however, were eliminated, thank goodness.
     
  19. scootermcrad
    Joined: Sep 20, 2005
    Posts: 12,290

    scootermcrad
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Aaaa... good to know! Thanks for the clarification. Didn't think it hit until late 60's with Jag. Cool!
     
  20. flynbrian48
    Joined: Mar 10, 2008
    Posts: 6,139

    flynbrian48
    Member

    T'birds and Cougars (I could have been hallucinating, but I seem to remember seeing full size Crown Vics and Marquis with IRS in my favorite bone yard too) have good looking IRS as well as Explorers, and should be plentiful in pick your parts yards. Metric bolt circle, but that should be easy to fix. People hollering about it being non traditional need to bone up a little bit on Hot Rod history :rolleyes:;). If you want make it look more traditional, a fake Quick change cover could be adapted, or even fabricated, if you care about it looking the part.

    It's irritatating to me to read guys bitching about "gold chainers" and street rods. If it's not to your own taste, why does that make it OK to ridicule? There's no accounting for taste, it is said, and everyones taste is different.
     
  21. dbradley
    Joined: Jan 6, 2007
    Posts: 1,036

    dbradley
    Member

    Way to go Brian............. I'll have you know that I remove my chains and lay them on the marble tabletop when I surf this site!!!!!! :D
     
  22. Jim Dieter
    Joined: Jun 27, 2008
    Posts: 389

    Jim Dieter
    Member
    from Joliet

    You are correct sir. I bought a IRS t-bird rear...just to have it. 4 bolts hold a sub frame, that holds everything. It was set up for coils and has a hook type bottom arm that drops under and around most frame rails. I know I will use it some day....impulse buy. It wouldnt look right in my merc, but might be acceptable in my panel.
     
  23. esscott
    Joined: Feb 5, 2007
    Posts: 17

    esscott
    Member

    FYI, The 61-63 Pontiac Tempest (and Chevy Corvair) had IRS.

    I'm gonna have a complete 61 Tempest drivetrain - engine, "rope-drive" & rear independent transaxle - from a running / driving car for sale very soon.

    I'm thinking it would make a great swap into someone's project.
     
  24. scootermcrad
    Joined: Sep 20, 2005
    Posts: 12,290

    scootermcrad
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Don't forget about Shelby Cobras. Although they are generally off topic here (as well as IRS) they do technically fall in the era of topic as well. A well known car that was based around the earlier AC Cobras were the Daytonas.

    This one is a hand built replica based of a a Daytona that we being restored in parallel. The suspension was replicated in the project. IRS with a transverse leaf spring! Very cool!

    [​IMG]

    Not sure of the make of this 3rd member. T-bird I suspect...

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    By the way. This was this guy's first metalshaping project EVER! He's a hobbyist just like we are! Very inspirational!
     
  25. patgizz
    Joined: Jun 14, 2007
    Posts: 86

    patgizz
    Member
    from cleveland

    i have one from a 93 t bird outside, that i picked up for the hell of it. i can take pics when the snow melts. 4 bolts hold the whole deal on except the upper spring perches and shock mounts which are located on the body.

    dunno why i got it but it'll get used one day
     
  26. Keep
    Joined: May 10, 2008
    Posts: 662

    Keep
    Member

    I have an 87 jag rear in pieces in the garage. It is going into my 23t. If you like I can take some pics of it all tore apart and upload them.
     
  27. Dirtynails
    Joined: Jan 31, 2009
    Posts: 844

    Dirtynails
    Member
    from garage

    It's a replica Mercedes Race Gullwing car built for a customer in the USA last year. Engine is a Mercedes 3-0-0 six cylinder and trans ( same as the 300SL gullwing road cars 330hp) .Designed in 1950 ,the blueprints were'obtained' from Daimler via the backdoor. The Chassis is all Chromemoly instead of the original M/S and as result the welding etc is of a better standard. The only thing that would differentiate it from a Genuine one is...there are no genuine ones left. The open cars are all in the Museum in Stuttgart and Daimler have decided that they are now too precious to drive ,although they were giving live demo's all over thew world until recently.
    I'm bound by a confidentiality agreement so I cannnot say anymore other than to post up this of the real one.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Mercedes were selling cars in 1935 (W170) with 4 wheel independent suspension. The rear end design was used right up until 1972.
    I have seen a flattie independent diff on a couple of occaisons,both used the torque tube bells etc on flanges attached to the banjo sideplates.
     
  28. bluebolt
    Joined: Jan 9, 2008
    Posts: 309

    bluebolt
    Member
    from Benton LA

    Scootermcrad, that is not a Thunderbird center section, I have several and it's not one of them.

    There are 2 basic types of "A-arm"IRS, those that use the halfshaft as the upper a-arm with a lower a-arm (Jaguar, Corvette and I believe the Kugel) and those that have true upper and lower a-arms with a separate half shaft (1989-1997 Thunderbird/Mark VIII, 2002 up Explorer, 1999-2004 Mustang Cobra and I believe the real 427 Cobra's). The Jag/Vette types could conceivably be lighter but if the halfshaft breaks there goes your suspenion.

    The Ford Thunderbird v8/SC and Mark VIII rear axles are strong and based on the 8.8 Mustang rear axle. Lots of parts available for them and they are relatively cheap and easy to find. If you use the "winged" rear cover from an Explorer it makes it easy to mount. The Mark VIII is all aluminum too. They are popular in V8 RX7's and Miata's and are the basis for the IRS option in Factory Five Replica's.

    There are lots of other IRS possiblities out to use parts for a hot rod including Mazda 929 and 1986 up RX7 which have the Ford 5 lug 4 1/2" pattern.
     
  29. scootermcrad
    Joined: Sep 20, 2005
    Posts: 12,290

    scootermcrad
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Yeah, was pretty much just guessing. Any idea what it might be? Can't remember what he said it was out of. If I recall it was something old that had been completely gone through. The website that this car was on has been recently removed and I don't have the guy's email to ask. I don't remember his name, for that matter.
     
  30. scootermcrad
    Joined: Sep 20, 2005
    Posts: 12,290

    scootermcrad
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    That is going to be INSANE! Personally I would like to see more on this car if you have a link to the outside world to follow it.

    Sorry to stray off topic here, but do you have a body for this or is it going to be scratch-built??
     

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