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Technical Sbf in a 35 Ford

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Old35Matt, May 19, 2017.

  1. Old35Matt
    Joined: Aug 22, 2016
    Posts: 39

    Old35Matt
    Member
    from Oklahoma

    I know this has been beat to death and I have yet to find what I'm looking for.

    I desire to put a 302 with either an AOD or T5 in my 35 Ford truck.
    I have reached out to a few on here and have had limited replies as the posts were a few years old.

    I have seen a build that felt with this, and while it's a good read and ok pics, it doesn't go into too much technical detail and the OP hasn't replied yet.

    That said, I am looking for some measurements.
    Specifically how far my oil pan needs to be from my original cross member.

    I have motor mounts from chassis engineering. They state the center of the frame mount should be 22" from the front of the frame. I question this.
    Has anyone done this or do you have a measurement for the pan? I am also using a 1980 bronco pan.
    Lastly what degree should the engine be canted to the rear?

    (The chassis engineering mounts are not parallel, depending on how they are mounted the mounting surface can be either canted forward or rearward and CE says either way is ok?????, however doing one or the other changes where the center mark of the frame mount is thus moving the engine forward or backward. I'd prefer forward as I don't want to massage the firewall - if I don't have too, I've seen it go both ways on here).
     
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  2. Mock it up. Be traditional.
     
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  3. Atwater Mike
    Joined: May 31, 2002
    Posts: 7,498

    Atwater Mike
    Member

    A truck pan and rear sump pickup will mimic the flathead pan...good clearance to your steering tie rod & drag link.
    Do take into account the FAN, as it will be frightfully close to the radiator: There is a short water pump available (don't remember who makes it, there are 3 or 4 mfrs.; Ebay has a couple of 'shorties'.)
    Somewhere, there was a thread, short pulley on crank, too.
    C.E. is sharp, but '35 Ford pickups are short in the engine compartment, and Ford engines are longer than a story.
    But you know this.
    I would be hesitant to take anyone's word on some "22 inches" from anything. As @X38 says, "MOCK IT UP!"
    Lower engine into its prospective 'resting place', with interior floor pan removed. Set engine mounts (the ones attached to the block) on the frame rails, or a pair of short wooden 2" X 4" blocks. Trans should be attached, to see what 'interferes' at crossmember.
    C.E. has a wishbone-splitting kit, that includes some bracketry to mount that Ford transmission...
    Set vehicle 'on its weight' now, and check for engine angle. (if truck is 'severely raked', the engine angle will be slightly affected, but with the C.E. mounts, you should have some 'adjustment' there. (height, with 'spacers')
     
  4. Old35Matt
    Joined: Aug 22, 2016
    Posts: 39

    Old35Matt
    Member
    from Oklahoma

    I'll work on this.
    I'll post some pics too.
    I believe I will have to modify the x member as it's it wide enough for the AOD or T5 as it is now with the center piece removed.
    The bones are already split
     
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  5. Atwater Mike
    Joined: May 31, 2002
    Posts: 7,498

    Atwater Mike
    Member

    Cool, Matt... We'd all like some pics, maybe someone will comment and save you some time and trouble?
     
  6. Old35Matt
    Joined: Aug 22, 2016
    Posts: 39

    Old35Matt
    Member
    from Oklahoma

    Here's where I'm at so far.
    Bones split, front suspension on (no sway bar yet), 302, 1980 bronco oil pan, CE trans plate so I can drill my own holes as they don't carry a AOD or T5 plate, CE sbf motor mounts for a 35-40 ford.

    As you can see the frame mounts are canted so either they slope forward or rearward depending on which one I put on which side (again CE says either way will work, but I would think having them sloped rearward so the trans has a easier time lining up with the diff would be the better case - but this is my first build).
     

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  7. stepchild
    Joined: Mar 25, 2005
    Posts: 631

    stepchild
    Member
    from Ohio

  8. Old35Matt
    Joined: Aug 22, 2016
    Posts: 39

    Old35Matt
    Member
    from Oklahoma

    That's the one I have read and reached out to the PO, but nothing yet.
    From reading his build thread it is possible, and I will most likely have to go AOD unless I learn to shift the T5 from the rear of the cab or if anyone has come up with something since this original post I'd be glad to hear about it as I would like to keep it a manual, but beggars can't be choosers and my fabrication skills are very limited.
     
  9. BamaMav
    Joined: Jun 19, 2011
    Posts: 1,570

    BamaMav
    Member
    from Berry, AL

    I would sit the engine/tranny in the truck with the intake I planned to use, and then put a small torpedo level on the carb pad and make sure it's level front to back and side to side. You can block up the unit to get the total height you want, and with the carb pad level, it should have about the right amount of tilt to it.

    I am putting a 302/AOD in my 47 Lincoln. I had plenty of room from the firewall to where the radiator was because my car originally was a V12, but my steering box got in the way of the exhaust and oil filter. I ended up having to build a crossmember to mount my engine under the steering box, with the oil filter sitting in front of the box. I will still have to use a short filter for frame clearance, even with the engine offset 2" to the right. I am also having to use 5.0 Explorer exhaust manifolds as there were no other off the shelf headers or manifolds that would clear the steering box. My crank pulley is almost centered on the spring crossmember.
     
  10. Where your at is exactly why I hate Kit stuff and became a pretty fair fabricator back some 40+ years ago. I see the Kit industry hasn't changed a bit. They sell ya stuff that's kind of close but not quite what you need and instructions that don't do much to help ya out. By the way to get your Truck sitting even close to Kool your going to need at least 4" lowering blocks. That Sucks.
    I have done just what your trying to do but back before Digi cameras. To install the then C-6 on a small block I had some 3/16" folded into channel matching the Frame channel and removed part of the X. I cut just inside of where the master mounts leaving room for a small booster and dual master mounted on the 40 style pedal unit. Working on a center line I built a new section on both sides widening the center opening of the frame so the C-6 would fit. I also fabbed up a top piece and welded it in and a bottom plate to mount the split bones to, along with trans mount. This part was removable so the Trans could be removed if necessary from the bottom like it should be. I also hand built out of same new folded material new cross plates between outer frame rails to the new center channels and welded them in. I had already made openings for the exhaust to pass through. I did all this with Body on. A good bit of work but all in all not a tough job. Some times you just cant buy what it takes to get Your job done. I think your at that point.
    Why don't CEI make a rear spring kit for Hot Rods instead of 4X4's?
    Once you have the Trans mounted then sit your motor where it belongs and build new chassis side mounts and weld them in. What you have in your hand sitting on your Frame is "STUFF" that almost fits everything but isn't correct for anything.
    I know it's kind of like a kick in the Groin but sooner or latter your going to figure this out for your self. Sorry to be so blunt but Facts are Facts.
    The Wizzard
     
  11. Here are some Photos of still photos of a 38 Ford I did much like the one I described above. Still a C-6 and Small Block. Hope this helps. Hope they actually turn out.
    The Wizzard
    20170519_202312.jpg 20170519_202322.jpg 20170519_202336.jpg
     
  12. stepchild
    Joined: Mar 25, 2005
    Posts: 631

    stepchild
    Member
    from Ohio

  13. JeffB2
    Joined: Dec 18, 2006
    Posts: 5,636

    JeffB2
    Member
    from Phoenix,AZ

  14. Roothawg
    Joined: Mar 14, 2001
    Posts: 17,144

    Roothawg
    Member

    He won't need 4" blocks. I just did the same swap on my 35 frame. Its not a kit. I assume you are being literal and not just speaking of kits in general?

    I may run a 2" block, but not a 4".
     
  15. I try not to run lowering blocks at all. Personally I just think it's a better way to go. I don't get why most all builders that hang dual rear springs think they must mount the front spring hanger under the frame rail. Then on the shackle end the complete hanger unit goes under the rail also. Now that's most of the time, not all. I know the Gas Tank makes things tight on the 35-40 frames but you can mount the Shackle through the frame and the front mount up on the inside of the rails. End result most often is Zero lowering block required. Yes, I understand I don't think like normal Home builders.
    The Wizzard
     
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  16. treb11
    Joined: Jan 21, 2006
    Posts: 2,737

    treb11
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

  17. Old35Matt
    Joined: Aug 22, 2016
    Posts: 39

    Old35Matt
    Member
    from Oklahoma

    I got a message from James who did the SBF in his 37 (37 Ford Pickup Build project Fubar), he is going to take some measurements for me.
    Yes I have considered the s10 tail housing but had not researched it yet. Thanks for the info!
     
  18. Roothawg
    Joined: Mar 14, 2001
    Posts: 17,144

    Roothawg
    Member

    I don't have blocks on mine. This is how it sits. It's a little high for my liking, but..... I left it until I see how it sits with my travel trailer attached. This is the same setup Matt has. IMG_6129.JPG
     
  19. Old35Matt
    Joined: Aug 22, 2016
    Posts: 39

    Old35Matt
    Member
    from Oklahoma

    On a side note, I will have to either modify my firewall or get a recessed one.
    Just setting the block in there I can tell the firewall - on my truck - will need a corner where the driver head will sit recessed - just to fit - not so that I can remove the head or valve cover in the truck.
    I'm in Detroit for the next 10 days and will see if I can pick up a recessed firewall from EMS sheet metal and maybe a new floorboard and save on some shipping costs!

    Gotta see how much they are or if they even carry them anymore tomorrow though.....

    They do have smooth running boards for $400!
     

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