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SBF Gurus--Build advice?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Mike51Merc, Sep 30, 2013.

  1. Mike51Merc
    Joined: Dec 5, 2008
    Posts: 3,834

    Mike51Merc
    Member

    Keeping this on-topic, it's in a '63 Falcon.

    Got a set of Ford GT40 heads (F3ZE-AA) that I want to put on a 1975 302 (stock hydraulic flat tappet). Is this a bolt-on job or do I need to change anything else (rockers, springs, pushrods) in the valve train?

    What do you guys think about roller conversions versus staying with flat tappets? I appreciate rollers have advantages but I like to keep the budget lean.

    I'm thinking of going with Edelbrock Performer intake and cam. Any comments or suggestions with this combo?
     
  2. good choice on the intake
     
  3. prpmmp
    Joined: Dec 12, 2011
    Posts: 1,060

    prpmmp
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

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    Last edited: Sep 30, 2013
  4. Mike51Merc
    Joined: Dec 5, 2008
    Posts: 3,834

    Mike51Merc
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  5. prpmmp
    Joined: Dec 12, 2011
    Posts: 1,060

    prpmmp
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Cool!!
     
  6. BamaMav
    Joined: Jun 19, 2011
    Posts: 4,261

    BamaMav
    Member
    from Berry, AL

    You will need to change the valve springs to something that is compatible with the flat tappet cam. Roller springs have too much tension and will wipe a lobe on the cam with flat tappets pretty quick. Other than that you should be good to go.
     
  7. tylercrawford
    Joined: Jan 30, 2011
    Posts: 726

    tylercrawford
    Member
    from Buford, GA
    1. S.F.C.C.

    The springs would really depend on what size cam you want to run in hydraulic flat. You'll also want to check the GT40 springs on a rimac or what have you for the pressures on the seat/open/rate. If your within +/- 10lbs at open/seat and the rate is within 15-20lbs/in you should be fine. The cam card will tell you what springs it recommends or call up the manufacturer's help line.

    The gt40 heads use a pedestal mount rocker arm which is completely different than a standard poly-lock deal. I can almost guarantee you the pushrods won't work as the pedestal style is hardly adjustable (shims under the mounting pad) and are a different height.

    If the 75 302 motor is already together your only real option is to run link-bar lifters ($150-200 for swap meet/ebay specials). You can run any late model roller cam at that point and don't have to drill and tap the block in the lifter valley to hold down the spider. If it hasn't been built yet, I would just run a late model block as the cheap option (factory parts) in the old block also requires a reduced base circle cam because of the lifter guides.

    I personally would rather go with a roller cam . . . the technology allows for trouble-free break-in, reduced friction, and the ability to buy used stuff. You can easily find used motorsport letter cams for $60-80. The E cam would work really well for a mild 302 with a carb and a manual and has a nice little lope to it.
     
  8. 40FordGuy
    Joined: Mar 24, 2008
    Posts: 2,907

    40FordGuy
    Member

    I'm with the roller cam; Get the complete kit, so you'll have all the correct valve gear, springs included.

    Happy Roddin' 4TTRUK
     
  9. Diavolo
    Joined: Apr 1, 2009
    Posts: 810

    Diavolo
    Member

    Also remember that if you use a roller cam, you need to change your distributor gear. The cam will chew it up.
     
  10. p51mustang
    Joined: Sep 2, 2009
    Posts: 84

    p51mustang
    Member

    Go roller and convert the heads to stud mount rockers.
     
  11. powrshftr
    Joined: Mar 29, 2013
    Posts: 4,550

    powrshftr
    Member

    If you haven't bought the intake yet, I would skip the Performer and go straight to the Performer RPM,as the Performer doesn't really provide a performance increase,mostly just a weight savings over the stock cast iron intake.

    What kind of performance level are you looking for?In the ballpark of 350hp below 6000 rpm is very easy to reach with pretty standard parts.

    If you're able to do some of your own work you can turn a 290-300hp motor into a 350-360 hp motor with some porting and gaskets matching.I can send you some detailed pics and walk you through it on a 302 head if you want.

    With a 650cfm Holley list # 4777,a gasket matched Performer RPM,your heads with a careful home porting job,and an Isky 280 Mega Cam,and a decent distributor with the advance curve properly set,you should be able to make 360-370 hp out of that motor without a problem,and it will run like a race motor,but be as reliable as an old stocker with its hydraulic lifters.
    Just make sure to use Joe Gibbs oil to prevent cam lobes from going flat.

    I would definitely get the matching springs from Isky at the time of purchase of your cam,and a couple sets of GT 40's I had came with screw in studs,so it depends which ones you get.If you try to save money and re-use stock rockers,make sure the slots have enough clearance that they don't bind against the studs at full lift and bend pushrods...that can be expensive.

    If you are planning to go a little more mild,I would recommend the Crane Energizer 272 hydraulic.I ran it in a very mild,but torquey little 302 I built for an o/t car I have.It just feels MUCH stronger than a stock motor,but doesn't require all the stress or revs of a higher performance cam.
    I would top it with the same intake and carb and a set of decent quality headers,or for a budget,a set of stock Ford 5.0L factory headers.

    In either case,you will have a fun little motor.

    Ps: In ANY small block Ford build ALWAYS replace the oil pump driveshaft with ARP's hardened steel unit.Its less than $30,and will prevent the stocker from twisting off and running your motor dry.

    Scott


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  12. Here's an E7TE roller block and heads in a 63 Falcon built on a budget for just under $3K. It's a 347 stroker, but you might want to consider going bigger if your budget allows.

    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=8952937#post8952937


    My SBF machinist Guru suggested I find an 86 or later 5.0 roller block and I ended up with a E7TE block that came from an 87 F-150. I paid $75 for a bare block from Craig's List. It got bored .030 and clearanced for the 3.400 stroke.

    Because of column shift and other clearance issues, I stuck with the cast iron exhaust manifolds that were on the 1980 Lincoln Town Car flat tappet 5.0 engine that was already in the car.

    We both knew that this would be a power limiting factor so he also suggested finding a set of E7TE 64cc chamber cylinder heads that he could port by doing some bowl work and removing the thermactor humps from the exhaust ports. The springs and retainers would have to be changed, too. I found a set of heads on CL, too.

    He's built many-many of these 347 combos so it was only a matter of finding the right parts at the right price..

    The cast steel crank 3.400 stroke crank and the I beam rods came from RPM: http://racingpartsmaximum.com/

    The cam and roller lifters are an off the shelf item from Erson Cams:

    http://www.pbmperformance.com/camcards/212839.pdf

    To keep the compression ratio in the neighborhood of 9.1:1, he chose a set of Icon forged pistons:

    http://www.kb-silvolite.com/icon/

    And Mahle rings:

    http://www.mahle.com/MAHLE/en/Produc...s/Piston-rings

    All bearings were Federal Mogul and a gaskets were Fel-Pro...

    To keep the valve train under my silly finned valve covers, we went with some gently used dead stock Ford rocker arms and pedestals. The plan is to upgrade to Comp Cams Pro Magnum roller tips this winter, but for now the stock stuff is working just fine.

    Oil pump is a Shuman standard pressure hi volume pump:

    http://www.schumannsdynamicperformance.com/

    The pump pick-up is from Melling. My dopey die cast finned aluminum oil pan didn't require any clearancing.

    Intake is a Weiand street fighter that was on the old engine. I used a Jegs universal SBF timing cover. and an 870 Holley.

    Engine is a 28oz imbalance- I used the harmonic damper from the old engine and an SFI rated flywheel/flexplate from TCI.

    This thing is silly fast- because of the built AOD I have in the car and the 2500RPM stall, it pulls like a mofo all the way to 5000RPM in all gears....

    I'm running a 3:80 trac-loc rear and my skinny little 14" tires are prolly saving me from ripping out the rear leaf spring mounts from the underbody.

    My GPS driven speedo says my 0-60 time is 5.87 seconds in 291 feet when the tires will actually hook....with cast iron exhaust manifolds and 195/70R14's...

     
  13. Mike51Merc
    Joined: Dec 5, 2008
    Posts: 3,834

    Mike51Merc
    Member

    Guys:
    Lotsa good advice, but I'm not building this up from scratch right now. Got a fresh stock rebuild on the 302 that I inherited from the previous owner. Runs nice, but the problem is that it's a 1975 smogger with probably less than 150 horses.

    Figure I'd swap heads, cam, timing chain, and intake to wake it up a bit. Just need to know whether the bolt-down pedestal rockers on the GT40s will work with a flat tappet cam and my stock rods. I've read that I'd need to change out the valve springs to match the cam and that I may need to change the pushrods. I'm not into dropping $2Gs on this project right now.

    I've got an Edelbrock 500 carb now, and I can get my hands on a 600 (from a friend) later, if necessary.

    Not into drag racing. Just looking for a lively street performer and some fun carving up some country roads.
     
  14. It'll work of you measure and change the length of your pushrods.

    These are GT-40 heads and not GT-40P right?



    Posted from an IBM Selectric
     
  15. Mike51Merc
    Joined: Dec 5, 2008
    Posts: 3,834

    Mike51Merc
    Member

    GT40, non EGR, no thermactor humps. Bolt down rockers.
     
  16. powrshftr
    Joined: Mar 29, 2013
    Posts: 4,550

    powrshftr
    Member

    Hi Mike,
    In that case,I would stick with the smaller Cane grind I mentioned earlier,but I would definitely still swap valve springs for recommended ones.You can try to get away with the stock ones,but in my experience,it always comes back to bite you.

    A small cam,small carb,decent intake will really wake up that little Ford.
    And I strongly suggest that you give some serious consideration to a light porting job.The Gt40 heads are really not fantastic from a performance standpoint until you give them a chance to breath.And it's all little stuff you can do yourself to gain free hp and tq that you will feel across the board during street driving.

    Keep us posted,looks like you're going to have a fun little motor in a fun little car!

    Scott



    Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
     
  17. Yep, the pushrod length is different, you need the pedestal, non-roller pushrods....
     

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