Technical SBF 4 speed bellhousings

Hey guys, hoping one of yinz can point me in the right direction:

My pops has a 302 that we're in the process of transplanting into his 65 ranchero. He just picked up a T10 four speed and we're trying to locate the correct bellhousing to bolt it up to the 302. I think its the earlier, narrow-pattern T10(like '64 and older?), but as you see in the picture, we either need a different bellhousing or drill and tap it to fit the T10 we have(would prefer not to go this route, if its even a good idea).

So, do any of you know what bellhousing(s) we should get that'll work? Or if you have one, or know where to get one, or the part number, I'd greatly appreciate it.

Pics attached below...

Thanks a bunch!
Chris

 

I am not sure that there is an OEM one. Ford went to wide toploader pattern in 1965. Circa then, the SBF had a 5-bolt block to bellhousing pattern. By the time that the 302 came along, it had a 6-bolt block to bellhousing pattern.

 

Gimpy is right, there is no factory bell for that combo. The '62-64 bell that you need won't fit your block. At one time Ansen sold a scattershield for the '65-up block that had both bolt patterns on it, I believe Lakewood still offers one with both patterns. There really isn't enough meat in the factory aluminum bell to drill/tap it for the early pattern. Ford did make a rare cast-iron SBF truck bell that could be modified, but that takes a different flywheel/clutch and is bulkier; some serious firewall bashing would be needed.

The cheapest solution would be to get a '65-up Ford T10 case to swap for yours or complete trans. If you decide to try to make the one you have work (not recommended), you'll still need to change out the front bearing cover on the trans to the newer unit as they're larger than the one you have and it's needed to properly index the trans.

I'll also note that you have a Fairlane trans; they locate the shifter further back than the correct Falcon/Comet T10, you'll have to butcher the floor/bracing to make it fit (bucket seats required).

 

I had a very early 65 Comet convertible 289 that was a 5 bolt block and a T-10 4 speed. Bought it off a used car lot in 67 so it could have ben changed, but only had 30 something thousand miles. I know it was a 5 bolt because I changed the clutch and put a hurst shifter on it when the stock one got sloppy.
Don't remember whether it was a wide or narrow bolt pattern.

 

I have one laying out if you need it. $100 + the ride to you. Where are you located?

 

Do you (or anyone else) have a picture of that "rare" cast-iron SBF truck bell?

 

I might be mistaken, but as I recall, the changeover from 5 bolt bell to 6 bolt pattern occurred in early '65 model production. If that is correct, then it would explain the '65 Comet southerncross2631 describes. However, even if that is true, I think the trans bolt pattern followed the bell bolt pattern...i.e. no 6 bolt old style trans bolt pattern.

Ray

 

It doesn't help get you down the road with what you've got, but many Ford top loading 3.03 3-speeds and T&C 4-speeds have both narrow and wide bolt patterns.

I can't remember for certain, but isn't there an adapter to mount a late Ford stick shift tranny to the '49 to '64 bell? Maybe Offenhauser? Unfortunately that isn't going the direction you want. Sorry,
-Dave

 

To the best of my knowledge, Ford never made a 6-bolt/early pattern bell. What they did do is drill some of the '65-up trans for both patterns (service replacements? You see some with both patterns, some with just the late one...) but that still leaves you in the same boat; you need that late trans to fit the 6-bolt bell. The single exception may be the 260; Ford carried it into early-'65 production (discontinuing it as soon as supplies ran out) without changing the block casting/bell. I suspect these used the dual-pattern trans where a manual was fitted.

The cast-iron truck bell is of limited usefulness; the reason it's bulkier is it uses a larger flywheel/clutch, so if you don't have the matching flywheel it won't do you any good.

 

I'd probably try to locate a top loader 4 speed and use that.

 

Nothing said was in disagreement with what you said in an earlier post. I merely 'believe' the transition from 5 bolt blocks to 6 bolt block (289 cu in) did not occur until after some '65 model year production had been run down the
line. That, presumably, would have occurred in late calendar year 1964. That does not conflict with, but rather would have been concurrent with, the later transmission bolt pattern being used in production after the bell housing pattern switch.

Ray

 

Ford made them as well. I have have a few sold them. They had Ford parts numbers not aftermarket.

Stock Ford with both patterns.

 

Robert...can you confirm the first four digits there...looks like C5TA....but hard to tell.......If so, I think that suggests being engineered for '65 truck application.

Ray

 

That's the cast-iron truck bell. It has a C5T (T for truck) part number, which would make sense. You need the matching flywheel.

 

I "Hi-Jacked" that from Google Images

It is for sale here-
http://www.2040-parts.com/ford-must...ellhousing-c5ta-6394-a-bell-housing-i2019505/

Listed as Boss 289 302 351, however we all known there never was a Boss 289.

 

And the T indicates that it is a TRUCK part.

 

I do not think the smallblock was used in the trucks until around 67 or 68 so could that bellhousing be from a van that had a 240.

 

While Ford didn't offer the SBF in a US-built truck until '69, they did build a 289-powered version starting in '65 for sale in Mexico (where the 300 six wasn't available at the time). Some of those made their way north of the border which is why this bell is rare here. The SBF was never very popular in the trucks because the 300 six had a better 'truck-like' torque curve and delivered better fuel economy.

The cast-iron bell was developed to allow fitting a larger flywheel/clutch; the 'standard' SBF was limited to a 10.5" unit, these used an 11" unit. The larger flywheel also required relocating the starter slightly, which is why you need the matching flywheel.

I'll repeat, rather than trying to track down these rare parts, it'll very likely prove to be cheaper to just bite the bullet and look for a '65-up trans or trans case.

 

Still might want to look at the Econoline vans from those years that has a 240 since it has the same bolt pattern as a small block and could also have the dual trans bolt patterns. The aftermarket big tooth count flywheels that will work with this bellhousing have the bolt patterns for three different size clutches.

 

Lakewood sells a dual pattern housing or drill and tap the housing you have

 

Or early bronco as well. They have a cast bellhousing with the small three speed trans.

 

Early '65 Mustangs that were made in '64, the so called 64 1/2s, would have had the 5 bolt 289s, possibly others.

 

T10 trans also could be had with the both bolt patterns and a front bearing retainer to fit the wide bolt pattern bells..Had a couple of them..nether Borg-warner or Ford wanted to lose any retro fit capabilities...

 

It almost looks like you have the bellhousing you need, and just need to drill and tap the extra holes. Can you post a picture of the underside, and also the casting number?
All C5TA and D1TA (iron truck) bellhousings have bosses cast in for a dual pattern but are typically only drilled and tapped for the wide pattern.
I have modified a C5TA for the narrow pattern, I had to make up a short transfer punch to locate the holes, due to the transmission bulging out and interfering with a standard length transfer punch.
These bellhousings are 5/8" deeper than car ones, I believe, so you need an extended pilot bushing.
I think they use an 11" clutch, like the C5AA aluminum bellhousing.

 

First of all, thanks a ton for all the replies! I had my pop check the code on the casting and sure enough, it was C5TA and had those extra pads/bosses. Took it to the tranny shop and they're drilling and tapping the bellhousing now. We'll see how it fits in there and how much firewall bashing will be required to shoehorn it in there. I'm not sure if the fella at the shop knows about the extended bushing but I'll see whats up when I see him next week.

-I think pop wanted to throw some bucket seats in there anyway and the car was originally a 3 on the tree, so we're going to end up making a hole in the floor either way, so the shifter being a bit further back shouldn't be a huge deal.

-Also, thanks for the info regarding the clutch/pressure plate/flywheel differences. I'm sure that'll save us an assload of heartache when we get to it.

-I think I'm going to start a build thread here soon to try and document our progress if any of yinz are interested.

Thanks guys!
Chris

 

Unfortunately, right about where you're going to need to cut the floor for the shifter is the main floorboard brace. This brace runs from rocker panel to rocker panel, ties to the transmission subframe rails, and also is where your front seat mounts attach. I'd highly recommended cutting a larger hole, then re-bracing the floor on either side of the shifter hole to put strength back.

Also, don't forget to change out the front bearing retainer on the trans. The '64-back trans have a smaller retainer diameter (about 1/4"), you need the later one to properly locate the trans to the '65-up bell. Don't depend on the bolts to locate the trans, there's enough slop that you can have clutch/front bearing issues.

 

Pretty sure the OEM style 4 speed floor humps are being reproduced.

 

They are, but they'll only work if you use the Falcon/Comet specific trans and linkage..... He's got a Fairlane box...

 

Also with small block fords- keep in mind they are externally balanced so when you change the flywheel especially the circumference it will through the engine out of balance. Check with your local Engine rebuilder or Balancing Shop.

 

No firewall bashing required. Will require q center dump drivers side exhaust manifold.