Technical SBC, still doesn't start

It all started with a ballast resister thread.

I'm working on a '63 Chevy C20, with a 283, rochester 2 jet 2bbl and HEI.

Went to the HEI after I kept burning points and failed starts. It has a new 4 point module, condenser, and rotor. The coil has been tested and good. I have a wire from the ignition to the + on the cap/coil. There IS current going to the cap/coil, it is at whatever is coming from the battery at the time I'm starting it. It varies due to having to recharge the battery when it drains from attempting to start it.

The problem now is that I don't have spark at the plugs. At first I had a weak spark, now I have nothing. After replacing just about everything in the distributor, it should start.

I went as far as to swap out the distributor with one from a running vehicle, and ended up with the same result.

It has to be something simple that I'm overlooking. TDC has been set over and over again.

Thanks in advance.

 

have you checked to make sure the rotor isn't off 180 Deg..
That's usually the first place I would start.

 

A failing coil can test okay and even start the car but will only run intermittently, then quit altogether.

Had an HEI coil fail, felt like the car ran out of gas. After five minutes or so it restarted and got me to a gas station, but after filling the tank the car would not restart. Turned out to be the coil. They're cheap, so put a new one in and see what happens.

 

Check to verify your wire is connected to the Battery terminal under the cap and not the Tach.
Also check your ignition switch and make sure the wire is connected to the IGN terminal.

 

2 distributors, one known good and both had no spark in your car?
Is that correct?

This problem started immediately after the transmission swap?
Is that correct?

It ran completely fine before you touched it?
Is that correct?

 

I have never seen a condenser on any of the HEI's on my vehicles, but I have always used HEI's from the mid 80's and newer . . .

If you are putting a condenser where one doesn't belong, that could be killing your electronics

 

Isn't there a ground strap or something that screws to one of the bolts that hold the coil into the distributor that people that lose or forget to put back in?

 

Checked to see if it was 180 degs. every time I put it at TDC and wouldn't start.
I have a wire from IGN to cap/coil. And a wire from ST, going to the starter.
@missysdad1 That is exactly how it failed. Ran like crap, had to keep my foot on the gas to keep it running.
Yes, 31Vick, that is right. It idled before I touched it. The trans was shot, so didn't drive. It's not wired with the park/neutral switch.

Thanks

 

All screws are fastened on the coil. There are four screws, one is grounded. And, it has a new ground strap to the engine block.

 

Some coils like the Accel come with black ground wire that goes to a coil mounting screw, to the middle terminal on the clip from the module. Got to have one or the other or the leaking voltage of the coil will make everything go haywire.
However...
The OP said he swapped a complete unit from a running car.

 

Not sure if this is your problem but the 1963 ign switch does not have power to the ign. terminal in the start/crank position. That is where the Ign wire on the starter cyl. comes in. It puts power to the coil when in crank mode. This is stock dist wireing. The H.E.I. needs 12 volts at all times. The stock wireing don't work with H.E.I. Go to a late model switch with a jumper from start and run terminals and 12 volts direct to the coil B+ term. also make sure you have a large ground wire from motor to chassis and body.
The Wizzard

 

^^^^^^^ what he said

 

You said 4 point module; there are 2 and 4 pin modules. The 2 pin actually has 4, 2 on each end; the 4 pin will have 4 on one end and is used with the Electronic Spark Control distributors. A 2 pin can be used in a 4 pin and vice versa, but they need to be connected correctly. Full 12 volts to the distributor and NO ballast resistor in use? If everything is connected correctly, but no fire, it's the module or coil; I had BOTH be bad when NEW. I am Butch/56sedandelivery

 

Probably what's going on here. I was going to suggest running 12 volts right from the battery to the + terminal...That oughta make it start, if everything else is right.

 

Could it be you picked up a terminal off the switch that is hot in the on position. But is not hot in start.

 

Ok, then you are diagnosing a no spark condition,
And one that is related to the car side, not the distributor side.
Should take about 10 mins to find the problem.
It will be no spark while cranking.
Run thru power and ground to ignition system tests "while cranking"
You might need help, a remote start button, or real creative way to see/be 2 places at once.

 

If you truly have a no spark condition at crank, AND ignition on...as others have told you how to check: You can Ohm out the coil, and the pickup coil to see if they are working. The ignition module you need to plug into a tester to see if it is good, so if everything else checks out, it is the module. When replacing, be sure to put silicone dielectric compound under it (on a cleaned surface!)
Non-GM modules are notoriously failure prone. Get a good AC Delco one.
I just diagnosed mine on my 50 Ford F1 and everything looked good, so I guessed the module. Went to Rock Auto and got new cap, rotor, module, AND pick up coil (since I had it apart anyway), got all the parts from AC Delco, and it was just under a hundred bucks. Compared to buying a new dist. with unknown parts for the same price, I know I made the right choice!

 

Rig a jumper wire from the inside terminal at the cap to the battery if you have spark its the wiring if not the distributor.

 

The module must have so many volts to operate at all; if memory serves, it is about 10vdc.
The battery voltage drops when the starter is engaged. The jumper off the starter is to provide a temporary boost to bring the voltage back up during cranking. The starter solenoid has it's own little stud just for this purpose. If it is a single small stud solenoid, replace it with a two stud.

I ran into the same problem converting a 69 442 with a 455 from points to hei. Full battery volts with the key off but it would not fire the plugs during cranking. I found the problem by doing as Sunbeam suggested, with a jumper directly off the battery to the cap terminal.

 

Are you sure you are at TDC on COMPRESSION stroke?

 

You stated you tried a known good working dissy, but had the same problem , if that's so then problem is in the wiring of the car.
Charge your battery, and leave the charger on the battery when cranking, if it has a jumpstart setting use.
Now turn the key to on/run and unplug the hei and use a test light on the white or pink wire which ever you have and female spade, it should light up, (you can use a ohm meter and verify 12 volts ) now set the light were you can see it while it is inserted into the plug and turn the key from on to start, if the light goes out, you do not have voltage during cranking only in the run setting of the key. rewire the key or look for a broken/burnt wire from the start pole of the key out to the dissy.
Another way to test is run a jumper wire from the positive battery straight to the white/pink wire of the dissy, now start the car, if it starts now it will not turn off until you remove the jumper. and you know that the dissy isn't getting voltage during cranking.
Godspeed
MrC.

 

is it a automatic - have a neutral safety switch?

 

If I missed it I apologize, but do you have fire at the plug when cranking over?

 

Betcha' dollars to donuts that he left the cap and wires in place and just slid a different distributor underneath 'em. The coil is in the cap and I'll also bet that he didn't change it out at the same time, assuming it was good. Am I right...?

 

I'm sure it's been on TDC every time I've tried something different. Including when I tried the dissy from running vehicle.

I used a test light and DID have current with switch at ON and while cranking, on the wire from IGN terminal on switch.
I ran a jumper from the battery to the coil and turned it over with a remote starter and DID have spark.

 

I had a stock HEI coil that wouldn't fire a high compression motor one time. I put in a high perf. coil and bingo! Took me a week to figure that one out.

Also, try running an external ground wire to the case of the distributor. Sometimes they don't ground very good with the gasket in place under the clamp down.

 

The Neutral/Park switch is NOT hooked up. It had manual three on the tree. I put in a 400 tranny.
The wires on this truck do NOT coordinate with stock wiring diagrams, due to wires having the insulation melted. I made new wires to replace them. I can't believe it ran like that, and that my buddy is still alive.

I have a thick red wire to the BAT terminal. One from IGN to the cap/coil. And one from SOL, to S on starter

 

@Montana1, this is a stock 283. Nothing high performance about it.

Where would I hook up an external ground wire at the dissy? This doesn't have a gasket in place now.

 

Ok, did it run after you rewired it?
Or
Did the trans swap and rewire happen at the same time?