I had a 56 Pontiac daily driver a few years back ,but mine had the 317 in it still with a 3 spd on the column.As far as using a SBC you may be in for sum troubles.If i remember right the master cylinder was in a bad spot and the weirdo motor and bell mounts were in strange places ,and might cause exhaust interference problems.Even though they are GM products they did alot of goofy stuff on Pontiac in 55-57 that they didnt do on Olds ,Buick ,etc.Things like the pedals still coming through the floor in 56 ,instead of hanging under the dash.BTW hope and pray that the front wheels bearings dont go out.If i remember the inners are "B60" and they are obsolete for over 40 years now ,and fit nothing but 55-57 Pontiacs according to a Hollander i looked at.I ended up getting used ones from a donor car in a pinch .I loved the car ,but was having Hell keeping it on the road as my daily ,because of the parts avalibilty and sold it .Not trying to discourage anyone ,but thought i would share sum facts about the Chassis parts problem with them.Im sure the SBC switch can be done since they are both rear sump motors ,but it may not be as easy as other models ...
Sounds like that one-in-a-million Camaro sub frame installation solution! (actually, if the subframe was grafted in there, the engine, Turbo Hydro, power steering, disc brakes, wheel bearings, etc. would be a package deal! ...Save for the dead-end Chevy 4.75" bolt pattern...But you could always run telltate Rallies! [and a 10-or-12 bolt Chev butt...] BUT, it would all be GM...) But this would be a logical GM way to go, if you wanted to keep the Pontiac. Probably your best bet. But if done, I'd hang the Chev swing pedal bracket, and tie it in to the dash above the steering bracket, sandwiching the lower dash rail. Pontiac wheel and column could remain. Easy job, overall.
thanks for the info! hopefully some more people chime in here.i have seen some with sbc,there has to be a way!
You can do it, but it may just be easier after all the fabbing, adapting, etc. to find a decent used 55-60 Pontiac motor that would basically bolt in.
Thats kinda what i was thinking as well,but i know alot of peple on here are not cosher with clipped cars.In the case of a 55-57 Poncho though i think it would be the way to go if you plan on actually using it as a daily driver in the real world.I owned a 56 Chevy tudor as well ,but i always thought the 56 Pontiac was a better looking car .I put brakes shoes and rebuilt the wheel cylinders (couldnt find rebuilt wheel cylinders so i had to buy the kits and rebuild them myself) on the Pontiac as well while i owned for a few months .The only thing that was easy to get were the brake shoes ,because they fit other models.The hard to get and pricey parts were the wheel bearings ,drums ,motor mounts, etc.Mine was a very rare stick shift car and the clutch assembly was gunna be harder to find than a two peckerd billy goat ,so i got out of it while it was still up and running .A clip job and SBC would cure all these issues and make it more driveable as you pointed out and would be the way to go IMO as well ...
A freind of mine that is always building and selling hotrods built a 55 Pontiac right before i had my 56,He clipped it and did a small block Chevy conversion.I saw him doing part of the clip job and it looked like it fit very well .Car drove real nice afterwards and you couldnt tell it wasnt stock from the outside.You could find another Pontiac 55-60 motoras was pointed out ,but if that Hydro goes south (which is what im assuming it has) ,its gunna be real expensive to get rebuilt and APINTA.Then you still have all those impossible to get and pricey chassis parts to deal with from now on.If its just a weekend cruiser ,i'd say leave it stock and find another Pontic motor ,but if you plan on driving it daily and year round i'd say upgrade .In the long haul it would be cheaper to upgrade now if your freind plans on keeping the car.It all comes down to personal choice ...
'59 389 block will bolt in and take late heads, intake, you have to run the early type front cover though to run the chin mount. 55-57 Pontiac the left manifold actually dumps out the front because of where the master cylinder and steering are. Guys who put later Pontiac motors in have offset them to the right an inch or so to gain some clearance. You will have to make the mounts, there was a kit on the market for a while but at last check it had been discontinued to be re-engineered. It's no more or less work to put a real Pontiac engine in there, 59-up Pontiac blocks use similar design mounts. As for the swing pedal deal, you have to move a defroster core and box off the firewall for 55-57's. I personally would adapt some other heater, maybe a 55-57 Chevy, get it under the dash and eliminate the cores under the seat, too. They do make a disc brake kit for this front end which may solve the bearing issue. I wish I'd known about that sooner, I would have made a point to save sets of them off clunkers I've owned.
I almost forgot about the heater cores under the seat thing and the long water lines .What were those engineers thinking ?Those inner bearings were only made by New Departure Bearing (or so i was told) and went out of business in the early 60's.I ended up getting used bearings and races from FlatTop Bob on here (great guy BTW),off of one of his junkers he had ,and luckily the first ones i pulled were good..Its odd because the outter bearing fits other cars and truck from that vintage ,but they had to make the inner one special .I carried a spare inner bearing and race in the trunk after i found that out from then on when i went out of town in it ...
early canadian pontiacs were stock with small block chevys. google canadian 55-57 pontiacs. theres a bunch of info and pics.
A lot of misinformation and disinformation here. For instance, motor mounts mounted at the sides of the bellhousing and front of the motor were a common trait shared with other GM nameplates in the fifties, Chevrolet included. Admittedly, the non ball joint kingpin front end ended with the 57 models, and side mounts were introduced on the 1959 models, so some parts may not be as readily available as later stuff, but difficult parts availability with the associated high prices on hard to get pieces can and usually is true of virtually anything built 50+ years ago. Want a ball joint front end? Pontiac used the same basic suspension from 58 through 1970. It couldn't be any harder adapting the ball joint spindles and possibly control arms from a later Pontiac of similar size to the mid 50s Pontiac chassis than it would be to whack the car in half to graft on the front half of a car 2/3 the size. Pick the right bellhousing or modify the original, and a Muncie four speed will fall into place. A friend of mine "back in the day" ran one in his '57 Bonneville, fuel injection and all. What's really sad is someone spouting off like this when a thread search before posting would have brought out tons of usable information from incredibly knowledgeable posters on this site alone.
Call down to your local O'reilleys and see if they have the inner bearings ,pressure plate ,clutch disc ,rebuilt wheels cylinders ,or brake drums in stock for a 56 Pontiac,next try Napa ,then Autozone .Please report back .Now compare those prices (if there are any to compare),to those of a 55-57 Chevy .Hows that for spouting off ?As far as the motor mounts go ,Chevy and most others used a front mount true ,but its not the same mount and its very hard to find as are the bellmounts for a stick shift Pontiac of this era.Any vehicle 50 + years old is more challenging to get chassis parts for sure ,but 55-57 Pontiac are more so than others is all i was trying to say ...
[ .A clip job and SBC would cure all these issues and make it more driveable as you pointed out and would be the way to go IMO as well ...[/QUOTE] my 55 is all stock and it drives great and takes me all over. im picking up a 389 for my 55 to swap for the 287 (just because the motors so tired), i will be posting a tread on the swap
Last time I checked, there was a custom chrome plated, stock 57 Pontiac swing pedal on a shelf in my basement. I will admit the brake booster, master cylinder assembly mounted to the toe kick and the actuating rod connected directly under the pedal pad, but it's a swing pedal, none the less. The under seat heater was long a selling feature of Pontiac and considered quite desirable. These cars were always sold as upscale models from the lowly Chevrolet. For instance, when is the last time you saw a six way MANUAL seat option for a Chevrolet?
I can understand wanting to put a sbc in your 55. I went to a lot of trouble to find a decent running pontiac engine (57 347) and converting to a 4 speed (55 parts car and a 58 bellhousing) in my 56 but it was worth it to me. You can box the frame where you can fab some side engine mounts and for the trans you will need to make a crossmember that goes to the outside frame rail as the X member is just tin and I don't think it will support the trans long term. As for the exhaust on the driver side just get another passenger side manifold so it dumps in the front and your exhaust shop should be able to fix you up to clear the steering box,master cyl and heater unit. You didn't say what kind of shape the car is in, but nowadays most parts are readily available, Brakes NAPA,front end CPR,master cylinder Kantor, within a week to your door. Not convenient or cheap for a daily but you can get them.Hope this helps, Bud
Nothing wrong with using the center front mount and the bellhousing side mounts and just letting the transmission hang out there in the breeze, so to speak. I ran a Muncie (replaced a three speed OD) in my 55 Nomad daily driver just that way for years with no ill effect. Only problem I ever had with it was the crappo shortened stock Muncie shift lever breaking off next to where the two halves were welded back together or the cable for the reverse lockout being screwed up, making reverse hard to get. A used Hurst shifter stopped all those shenanigans for good.
Canadian ponchos are Chevrolet chassis with Pontiac sheetmetal. At least my '57 and '58 are. If your buddy wants a SBC, why not buy one of the many thousand tri-five chevys out there and drive that. A Pontiac motor bolts in, fits and works without any problem. What happened to the one it came with? Shawn
Camaro sub frames are too wide! Have you seen the cars at shows with the front wheels sticking so far out that they practicaly have to use a front wheel drive wheel to keep 'em inside the fenders? CAMARO SUB FRAME! Few things look so cobbled. I've heard of guys using 2wd S-10 , or '80s monte/malibu stubs.
Oh, and I forgot to push my opinion on you. There are a few engines engines that sound really cool. Oldsmobiles, flatties,some Mopars. The throatiest moter of all? Pontiac! No matter what engine you put in, you are going to have to fabricate it's instalation. I would go through whatever I had to do to get a pontiac engine back in there. I hate coming up on some non Chevy car at a show expecting relief from a sea of SBCs, only to find ANOTHER SBC. Don't do the Quick and easy SBC. Be a rebel.
If you even think about subframing it, use a Firebird/Trans Am sub frame and stay with a Pontiac motor!
On my 57 I used a disc brake conversion from Master Power Brakes to solve my bearing issue, ditched the heater/defroster core for a modern master/booster/swing pedal set-up and las time I checked all the front suspension pieces are available from Kanter. Here's a shot of the booster ^^^ And nothing looks better than a real Pontiac engine in your Pontiac! Saw a SBC in a 56 at a show yesterday and it looked like someone sent a boy to do a man s job...
I bought bearings on all 4 corners with raced from carquest. Don't put a chevy in that tin Indian, don't sub it, don't create more problems then you're prepared for. 55-60 poncho engines are a direct bolt in and easy to come up on....so no need to puss out. My 55 car has been completely rebuilt with a fresh 60 389. Check my pics and look for the gold engine. They also bolt directly up to the 55-60 hydros and there are plenty of them around. People always think running poncho get is more expensive and time consuming than running chevy, but it's not true.
Scarebird sells a disc brake bracket for the 55 Pontiac. Many happy customers there. And I'm pretty sure they are a HAMB Alliance member. Edit: Yes they are. 10% off too, nice. Just for other people's info. Here is the site: http://www.scarebird.com/
This is what i meant by "some people are not cosher with clipped cars on here".I personally am cosher with what ever is the best choice in the long run for cost and avalibilty .Could be a Packard ,Hudson ,Stude ,which ever,there are always people that take it as a personal attack when you upgrade for avalibity of parts .Yes , anything is possible to get any part for an older car if you dont mind waiting on it and paying three times the money for it.This is why i was reluctant to suggest a clip job at first.Wish the OP had included what this Pontiac is gunna be used for .Daily driver or pretty sunny day Sunday driver.Like i said before if its gunna be a real world driver its time to upgrade .If its a once in a while cruiser to the drive in on a perfect day ,then leave it stock and find another 55-60 Pontiac motor to install.Guess the wheel bearings are at my local Carquest .I guess im just to dumb to find them around here in Texas.When the guy at the counter says they arent avalible period at Napa ,O'reillys,Motion bearing and Autozone,i guess that means they really are and they would just rather not sell them to me or something .I guess when i looked up the clutch disc in Kanter after striking out at every parts house in Dallas that i called and it says unavalible must send in yours to reline ,it means that they have a thousand of them just waiting on me .Maybe " we dont have it in stock and we cant even order it for a 56 Pontiac with a 317 and a factory 3 spd from any of our suppliers" means something different in Texas .Either way good luck with the Pontiac which ever way your buddy goes with it...
thanks everyone..i forwarded this to him to check it out.the car it self is really clean,but the 287 is locked up solid..
Ahh, ok, the original is stuffed. Well, Poncho V8's aren't really hard to find, the newer 1970's motors come up fairly often because some mullet gets himself a Trans-Am and "makes it better" by pulling a running 400 and putting a Chevy 350 in it's place. If it were my car, I'd stuff a newer 350 / 400 / 455 in it and drive the hell out of it. If that's not in the cards, install whatever you can get your hands on and get it on the road. Shawn
if i ever get back to my 55' 2dr wgn. i'm gonna stick a jag front end in with chevy power. mark at scarebird makes a great disc brake kit. hemi actually sounds good for power too.
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