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Technical Sbc help please! Wont turn over with plugs in (figured out, dumb mistake).

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Gearhead Graphics, Sep 7, 2020.

  1. Gearhead Graphics
    Joined: Oct 4, 2008
    Posts: 3,604

    Gearhead Graphics
    Member
    from Denver Co

    Help!!!
    I have a "ran when pulled" 350. Last time it was in a car it was driven home.
    Double hump heads, been rebuilt somewhere along the line as rod caps are all #ed.
    When i got it, I installed a new camshaft and geardeive. And roller tip rockers

    Now, I've got the motor in the car, valve's set to tdc, no flash the. 1/2 turn.
    I can turn it manually by crank.

    Put a starter on and it will only turn the motor with the plugs out. Plugs in and it really struggles to turn.
    Battery is fully charged, used 2 new starters, 1 later model factory small style, and 1 factory high torque.

    I've disconnected the torque converter just to be sure. Same thing.

    I'm not a motor guy, I'm trying anything I can to not pull this motor, car has show quality paint job on everything and I hate to risk it.

    Please, any ideas?
     
    grifcarnut likes this.
  2. oldtom69
    Joined: Dec 6, 2009
    Posts: 513

    oldtom69
    Member
    from grandin nd

    check the ground to engine connection first. are starter cables getting hot when trying to crank?Hot cables would indicate high draw.How easy does it turn by hand? 3/8 drive ratchet or 4 foot breaker bar?
     
  3. spanners
    Joined: Feb 24, 2009
    Posts: 978

    spanners
    Member

    With the plugs out does it spin freely with the starter? Or does it feel tight. Your gear drive mightn't have the right lash between gears.
     
  4. Terrible80
    Joined: Oct 1, 2010
    Posts: 778

    Terrible80
    Member

    If it struggles, but you can turn by hand, maybe remove coil wire and see if it cranks easier maybe it's fighting itself - too advanced. Recheck static timing?

    Sent from my LG-TP450 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     

  5. spanners
    Joined: Feb 24, 2009
    Posts: 978

    spanners
    Member

    I was going to suggest the earth to engine cable as well but assumed it would already be done.:D
     
  6. blowby
    Joined: Dec 27, 2012
    Posts: 6,860

    blowby
    Member
    from Nicasio Ca

    A weak battery will charge but still be weak. How old is it? Got a load tester? Jump it, or try another.
     
  7. jimmy six
    Joined: Mar 21, 2006
    Posts: 7,114

    jimmy six
    Member

    How does it spins with the plugs out. How long did it sit. Why the gear drive?
     
  8. Gearhead Graphics
    Joined: Oct 4, 2008
    Posts: 3,604

    Gearhead Graphics
    Member
    from Denver Co

    By hand I can turn it with a 1/2 drive ratchet, about 12 inch handle.
    No distributor in the motor. No coil.
    Jumping starter via battery on bench and jumper cables, yes, they get hot.
    Running external battery and jumper cables.
    Plugs out it spins pretty well. Some resistance, but not bad.

    Gear drive, because noisy.
    Battery age unknown, kept on charger during this use.
    Motor sat a year or so, always in a garage complete and covered.
     
    VANDENPLAS likes this.
  9. e1956v
    Joined: Sep 29, 2009
    Posts: 1,556

    e1956v
    Alliance Vendor

    Battery and grounds and grounds


    Sent from my iPhone
    www.speedoservice.com
    Should I rush your rush job or the rush job I was rushing when you rushed in?
     
  10. There was another thread just like this in the past, wonder if you searched if you could maybe find his solution.
     
  11. 2OLD2FAST
    Joined: Feb 3, 2010
    Posts: 2,724

    2OLD2FAST
    Member
    from illinois

    Did you check the starter drive to flywheel clearance ? Too tight can bind the starter ..
     
    ffr1222k and panhead_pete like this.
  12. Gearhead Graphics
    Joined: Oct 4, 2008
    Posts: 3,604

    Gearhead Graphics
    Member
    from Denver Co

    I haven't checked starter to flywheel. How would I do that?

    I'm used to Ford, starter just bolts in.
     
  13. bonneville bones
    Joined: May 17, 2006
    Posts: 148

    bonneville bones
    Member

    Load test the battery and get some battery cables.


    Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
     
  14. 2OLD2FAST
    Joined: Feb 3, 2010
    Posts: 2,724

    2OLD2FAST
    Member
    from illinois

    There are numerous tutorials on checking clearance. If I knew how , I'd send you a link..
     
  15. GordonC
    Joined: Mar 6, 2006
    Posts: 2,081

    GordonC
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    If the motor has sat awhile have you done anything to get some oil up into it? Cranking it dry isn't the best thing for it. What is the purpose of cranking it without the distributor in it? So the thing ran fine before you changed out to the gear drive and now it won't crank. I'd start looking there.
     
    1971BB427, VANDENPLAS and 2OLD2FAST like this.
  16. greybeard360
    Joined: Feb 28, 2008
    Posts: 1,511

    greybeard360
    Member

    If those are some cheap jumper cables they are probably too small to crank the motor by themselves. It sounds like you are getting ahead of yourself by not having it ready to fire when you start cranking on it. Get the battery in the car with some proper cables and I bet it makes a huge difference.
     
  17. Gearhead Graphics
    Joined: Oct 4, 2008
    Posts: 3,604

    Gearhead Graphics
    Member
    from Denver Co

    Primed oil pump before turning over. It has pressure, and had put a little pile in each cyl.

    I think my next step is starter shims.
    Did a little reading on that and I'm betting, hoping that's what it is
     
    GordonC likes this.
  18. AHotRod
    Joined: Jul 27, 2001
    Posts: 10,658

    AHotRod
    Member

    Are you certain that the valve lash is set correctly?
     
  19. banditomerc
    Joined: Dec 18, 2005
    Posts: 2,235

    banditomerc
    Member

    Review the work you did..thats where you will find the problem

    Sent from my SM-T560NU using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  20. blowby
    Joined: Dec 27, 2012
    Posts: 6,860

    blowby
    Member
    from Nicasio Ca

    This. And a known good battery.
     
    61Cruiser, VANDENPLAS and olscrounger like this.
  21. Splitbudaba
    Joined: Dec 30, 2014
    Posts: 409

    Splitbudaba
    Member

    How about cam timing to crank? What gear drive have you installed?
     
  22. 2OLD2FAST
    Joined: Feb 3, 2010
    Posts: 2,724

    2OLD2FAST
    Member
    from illinois

    "Carnac the magnificent" says ," I see a cam drive change in your future " LOL

    Simply because the " noise" will become annoying !
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2020
  23. Ericnova72
    Joined: May 1, 2007
    Posts: 429

    Ericnova72
    Member

    Cam drive would have nothing to do with it if you can turn it easy with a 1/2 drive ratchet, the plugs are out, and the starter won't turn it.

    Starter weak or shimed wrong, cables and grounds, battery are all that can be in play if you follow along the above information.

    If cam drive accuracy was off or valves adjusted so tight valves hit pistons you wouldn't be able to turn it with a breaker bar either.
     
  24. Doctorterry
    Joined: Sep 12, 2015
    Posts: 673

    Doctorterry
    Member

    I’ll put money on it (not literally) that it’s electrical. Three stories from my own experience...
    1.) I helped put a 283 in a ‘34 ford pickup with a friend. We put an old starter on it and it did exactly what you are describing. New starter, still same thing. Noticed my jumper cables we were using for temporary wiring was crimped on the insulation so it was making poor connection.
    2.) I had a 283 in a ‘62 corvette that wouldn’t crank over. Noticed I forgot the engine ground straps. Put them on and it cranked fine.
    3.) I was rigging up a plug in battery setup for my dragster. Brand new battery, and brand new mini starter. It cranked very very slow.. I noticed my $18 jumper cables that I used as my wires was getting hot.. I rebuilt my plug in system with some welder extension chord wire and that fixed that issue.


    Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
     
    firstinsteele likes this.
  25. I'm going to say battery voltage to low.
     
  26. Flex plate on in the right direction, maybe the starter is jamming there if it's not ?
     
    panhead_pete likes this.
  27. lippy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2006
    Posts: 4,963

    lippy
    Member
    from Ks

  28. Lloyd's paint & glass
    Joined: Nov 16, 2019
    Posts: 2,678

    Lloyd's paint & glass
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Crazy ass question, but it comes from experience. What spark plug are you running in those double hump heads? Yeah my dumb ass stuck a set of tapered seat plugs in a new build once, i got it to turn with the breaker bar. After it embedded all of the electrodes off the plugs into the tops of the pistons. Genius i tell ya, pure genius.
     
  29. Gearhead Graphics
    Joined: Oct 4, 2008
    Posts: 3,604

    Gearhead Graphics
    Member
    from Denver Co

    Lloyd, short ones. I was afraid of the same thing. I cant work on it again till weds after work, going to start by checking starter clearance and getting some shims. After reading, I feel that might be what it is.
     
  30. Greg Rogers
    Joined: Oct 11, 2016
    Posts: 262

    Greg Rogers
    Member

    Try the easy things first. I think Greybeard is right also. I have never been able to crank any car with a battery off of jumper cables, I've tried and it never works...
     

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