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Hot Rods SBC experts need help

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by kustomdeluxe, Jan 23, 2018.

  1. kustomdeluxe
    Joined: Sep 28, 2017
    Posts: 50

    kustomdeluxe
    Member

    Buddy has a early 283 that originally came with just crank pulley( no balancer)
    Is it ok to run later model damper or even 350 style damper(stock style or even fluidamper type)
     
  2. 4wd1936
    Joined: Mar 16, 2009
    Posts: 812

    4wd1936
    Member
    from NY

    You'll need to drill and tap the crank to keep the damper on as the original was a press/taper fit.
     
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  3. golftech
    Joined: Oct 31, 2013
    Posts: 4

    golftech
    Member

    just make sure you get a neutral balance damper
     
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  4. rd martin
    Joined: Nov 14, 2006
    Posts: 2,421

    rd martin
    Member
    from indiana

    get the correct dampner for 283,
     
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  5. mgtstumpy
    Joined: Jul 20, 2006
    Posts: 7,768

    mgtstumpy
    Member

    Bear in mind that SBC engines have three (3) different timing pointer locations:-
    1. Pre '69 engines, TDC mark is 2° to the left of the keyway centre line;
    2. '69 and later, TDC mark is 10° to the left of the keyway centre line; and
    3. 1984-'95 engines, TDC is at 12 o'clock position on the damper.
    Maybe a 6" balancer rather than a larger 6 3/4" provided the crankshaft snout is the correct diameter. I believe that you'll need to drill the crankshaft snout for a retaining bolt and washer.
     
  6. kustomdeluxe
    Joined: Sep 28, 2017
    Posts: 50

    kustomdeluxe
    Member

    We have a couple.
    Just want to be sure which one to use.
    The later would make pulley selection a little easier
     
  7. kustomdeluxe
    Joined: Sep 28, 2017
    Posts: 50

    kustomdeluxe
    Member

    Excellent info mgtstumpy!
    Thank you
     
  8. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 44,633

    squirrel
    Member

    maybe it does have a damper, and you just think it's not a damper, because it's not nearly as thick as the dampers used on later, larger engines?

    Pictures?

    If it's the original damper, it looks a lot like it's just a pulley. But it's a damper. And it will work fine, as long as the rubber is still ok. That's iffy...might need to get it rebuilt.
     
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  9. kustomdeluxe
    Joined: Sep 28, 2017
    Posts: 50

    kustomdeluxe
    Member

    All the parts are at buddy's house otherwise i would take pics for verification.
    Ill see if i can pull some of the inter webs
     
  10. It may not be a damper at all and more just a hub. That is what was on the 283 in my 39 ford. just a hub to bolt the pulley too. I will also be replacing it with a 6 inch balancer and appropriate timing cover for the timing tab once the block comes back from the machine shop.
     
  11. sunbeam
    Joined: Oct 22, 2010
    Posts: 4,544

    sunbeam
    Member

    Most 283s before 62 did not have dampers if I remember right. They went to dampers on 327s because the extra stroke caused less journal over lap. Except for the timing mark any sbc damper except a 400 will work. I need to add Gen II dampers are different.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2018
  12. not mine but this is what the straight hub looks like. it was on the early engines and I think only 265 and 283.

    crank hub.png
     
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  13. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 44,633

    squirrel
    Member

    they had some like this, too. You'll notice it's riveted together, and you might find a layer of rubber inside it.

    265 damper.jpg
     
  14. Good insurance, but may not be needed. If memory serves, the 55- 68 ? cranks did not have a bolt to secure the damper. This came later. So unless you get a 350 damper, you will not need to tap the crank. Not sure all dampers are press on, but a bolt does and a margin of safety.
     
  15. kustomdeluxe
    Joined: Sep 28, 2017
    Posts: 50

    kustomdeluxe
    Member

    Great info guys!
     
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  16. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 44,633

    squirrel
    Member

    They never bolted them on in the 50s, but they did by the late 60s. With the small light dampers and single groove pulley it's usually not a problem, but when you add a heavy damper, and a couple extra pulley grooves, with a long water pump, then the bolt is really necessary.
     
  17. 1934coupe
    Joined: Feb 22, 2007
    Posts: 3,595

    1934coupe
    Member

    I have a damper from a 67 283 that will work, it's yours if you want it just pay for the ride. I'll dig it out.

    Pat
     
  18. What are the thoughts on a heavier/larger damper (350 size) being used on the smaller engines 283, 327?
     
  19. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 44,633

    squirrel
    Member

    Probably won't hurt anything. The timing pointer won't fit right.
     
  20. The timing pointer needs to be removed and an adjustable timing tab installed.

    A large damper on a short stroke engine is just a resource hawg. The smallest damper that you can get away with is always your better option.
     
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  21. Yea, I was thinking in terms of the larger one doing a better job of dampening the harmonics then the the early small ones. I recently assembled an early SJ 327. Rotating assembly has been balanced and I'm in the market for a damper for this motor.
    P/B says it's a resource hawg and I can see that point too. You think the weight and inertia will be more a drag then any benefit toward the smoothness.
     
  22. DDDenny
    Joined: Feb 6, 2015
    Posts: 13,080

    DDDenny
    Member
    from oregon

    I know this is a 283 thread but here is a shot of the NOS small journal steel crankshaft and balancer in my 350 hp 327 Nova engine. Crank was threaded.

    20161215_184419.jpg
     
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  23. Fordors
    Joined: Sep 22, 2016
    Posts: 2,466

    Fordors
    Member

    I think it was Smokey Yunick that commented about a big harmonic dampener being really necessary on a high RPM engine running at speed for a long time, like an oval track application.
    If I had the big hi-perf dampener I would use it just because I like the way they look, but I would not go out of my way to buy one if I didn’t have one. Plenty of 7000 RPM 301’s were built BITD with the old, plain hub or the small 283 dampener.
     
  24. Ericnova72
    Joined: May 1, 2007
    Posts: 172

    Ericnova72
    Member

    At just a glance it would seem true that smaller is better....but actual damper testing has shown that the larger the damper, the more power made. Worst offender was an all aluminum "racing hub", best in all tests was the large 8" diameter damper.

    Reason is crank rotation is not smooth under power, as crank rotates, even under acceleration it flexes faster and slower under the 4 firing pulses per revolution. The larger damper limits the amount of advanced or retarded deflection the crank experiences and the result is increased power applied to the driveline instead of wasted bending the crank.

    There's a reason the 302 Z-28 engine got the heavy 8" damper right from the factory....

    If you search, there are several threads about this here at the HAMB
     
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  25. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 16,581

    gimpyshotrods
    Member

    I have watched Fluidamper and brand dampers snap the end off of crankshafts, on more than one occasion.

    Just throwing that out there.
     
  26. BigDogSS
    Joined: Jan 8, 2009
    Posts: 815

    BigDogSS
    Member
    from SoCal

    My 1967 327's crankshaft was NOT threaded. And it came loose. Tap and thread the crank.
     
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  27. kustomdeluxe
    Joined: Sep 28, 2017
    Posts: 50

    kustomdeluxe
    Member

    Thanks for the offer! But we have a few already. Just verifying which styles are appropriate.
     
  28. DDDenny
    Joined: Feb 6, 2015
    Posts: 13,080

    DDDenny
    Member
    from oregon

    Drill and tap.
    I can't stress this enough either, if you do this without a lathe you better come up with some sort of alignment sleeve with a pilot hole that registers on the crank snout, don't just start a drill in the existing center, its nearly impossible to get it straight this way.
    Predrill with a 3/16" drill bit first, then tap drill, chamfer and tap with a (sharp) tap.
    Make sure to back the tap out and blow out with air a few times during the process and use plenty of tapping oil. Blow out the threaded hole when finished.
    Jegs and Summit sell a combo bolt and heavy washer set, use a lock washer also.
     
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  29. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 16,581

    gimpyshotrods
    Member

  30. DDDenny
    Joined: Feb 6, 2015
    Posts: 13,080

    DDDenny
    Member
    from oregon

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