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Technical SBC eats cams

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by AGELE55, May 29, 2021.

  1. anthony myrick
    Joined: Sep 4, 2009
    Posts: 8,643

    anthony myrick
    Member

    Oh oh here she comes
    She’s a
    D00C1B91-273B-4FEA-B823-FDC4099436CA.jpeg
     
  2. I know that he just put a 327 together for Bob's Corvette, so yeah he is still active, but i have no clue what products he buys, and yeah as a nitro wrench, that shit is out of my league. But my point is, a guy that is way higher in the food chain than most hacks, uses the same basic principles.
     
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  3. AGELE55
    Joined: Jan 4, 2018
    Posts: 374

    AGELE55
    Member

    Call be anal or obsessive, but I like to understand things and not simply accept the general comments plastered on these oils and additives, like "extends engine life", or superior protection". Really? How about some DATA?! To that end, trying to understand how much zddp I'm actually putting into a new engine, I found this awesome chart from Lucas. Check out the lower RH entries for the zddp additive.
    One 16oz bottle has 43,000 ppm? Holy smokes.. and on the bottle, it recommends adding a full bottle with each oil change? A full bottle with 4.9 qts of oil puts you over 5000 ppm, plus whatever zinc was already in the oil you added it to. This doesn’t add up, because Lucas Hot Rod oil has 2100 ppm. Couple this with everything I’m reading that says too much ZDDP will also harm your engine. What to do? You call Lucas oil, and ask questions.
    Per the Lucas technical hotline ( as best as my note taking allows):
    My Castrol GTX oil has around 861 ppm of zinc. If I add a full bottle (16oz) to 5 qts of oil for break in, I’ll be in the mid 3000’s ppm which matches up with their own break in oil.
    They recommend following the GM procedure for the 30 min 2000-2500 rpm romp. Dump the oil and filter, and replace using another full bottle for the 500 mile break in drive. After that, hold around 2100 ppm. At this point, I asked why the additive bottle recommends adding a full bottle with every oil change, which as we already discovered, would hold your ZDDP in the mid 3000’s when their own oil has 2100 ppm. Hmmmm... “Good question”. He will “raise this issue with their marketing and development people”.
    So in conclusion, after full break in, us their HotRod oil at 2100 ppm, or use about a quarter to a third bottle of additive assuming your base oil carries around 861 ppm.
    I love technical stuff.
     

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  4. AGELE55
    Joined: Jan 4, 2018
    Posts: 374

    AGELE55
    Member

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  5. Well I guess everybody has been silenced by the crowd and are afraid to admit it .
    It doesn’t bother me what anyone uses,,,,it’s a free country,,,,,,well,,,,,almost,,,LoL.

    Yes,,,there are excellent oil filters in use today,,,,,,many top brand names .
    Great brands of oil as well,,,,,many types and different applications .
    I have three old OT vehicles that are still alive and kicking,,,,,,run great ,,,,,no issues to speak of .
    One is 27 years old,,,,,over a half million miles .
    Second is 21 years old,,,,,over 365,000 miles .
    Third is 20 years old,,,,over 342,000 miles .
    The one thing they all have in common is the brand of filter,,,,and brand of oil I used .
    I did these service changes my self,,,to make sure they were right .
    I have never had an oil related issue,,,,,bad bearings,,,bad rings,,,,,nothing .

    The filters were,,,,,get ready for it,,,,,,Fram !
    The oil was ,,,,,yes,,,,,Valvoline ,,,,another brand that gets run down here .
    It doesn’t matter to me what everyone here uses,,,,,it all goes back to my first hand experience.
    And I have had very good service with those brands,,,,,,just me I guess .

    I do believe that the top brand filters are excellent quality,,,,,and give great protection.
    To be fair,,,,it’s probably more than is required,,,,,,since my junk filters seem to do a great job as well .

    And besides ,,,,I try not to believe everything I read or see on the internet,,,,,,even though I’m certain that aliens have been kept from us all along .
    Back in the 70’s all the carburetors that could produce 100 mpg were bought and hidden .
    And of course Elvis is still hiding in Vegas somewhere .

    Lol,,,,,,,I think people should use what they like,,,,,I’ll use what I like .
    I guess I’m really just a renegade,,,,,going against the more established and educated norms .
    Lol,,,,,,I’m pretty sure we all don’t have the answers.
    That’s why I come here all the time,,,,,there will always be plenty of responses,,,,no matter what the question .

    Oh yeah,,,,,Aglee55,,,,,don’t worry about the cam,,,,it will be fine .
    Don’t overthink it,,,,just do it !

    Tommy
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2021
  6. So....would a broke in nice wear cam, now be a good piece for reuse consideration... I liked donating them to demo derby guys in past, found several of my cams in inventory...lobes look nice?
     
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  7. Blues4U
    Joined: Oct 1, 2015
    Posts: 5,928

    Blues4U
    Member
    from So Cal

    Sorry, but it's not really very technical, IMO it's mostly marketing BS. I'm not a fan.

    This subject has to be the most misunderstood subject that gets discussed around here.
     
  8. Interesting, I have noticed the finish on the bottom of the lifters is quite different from years ago. Makes you wonder if a final super finishing operation which removes maching marks was "cost reduced" out of production with reduced volumes.... due to rollers. I was involved in a component issue when loaded that failed in first 5 min...or it didn't fail. The solution was super finishing to eliminate break in.
     
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  9. AGELE55
    Joined: Jan 4, 2018
    Posts: 374

    AGELE55
    Member

    Well maybe you can enlighten us mere mortals next time you step off your podium.... lol
     
  10. Roothawg
    Joined: Mar 14, 2001
    Posts: 21,966

    Roothawg
    Member

    Be careful what you ask for......he can bury us in technical jargon. :) It's his profession.
     
  11. And he plays a big bass guitar, not the small ones ;)
     
  12. Blues4U
    Joined: Oct 1, 2015
    Posts: 5,928

    Blues4U
    Member
    from So Cal

    I pretty much did back on post #19.

    FYI, zinc compounds, unlike men, are not all created equal. There are varying types of zinc, and varying qualities of those types. Just throwing a ppm number around is not very useful. Lucas is playing fast and loose with technical info, telling you what you want to hear in order to sell you a product.
     
  13. AGELE55
    Joined: Jan 4, 2018
    Posts: 374

    AGELE55
    Member

    Oh hell. Back on Post 19, I couldn’t even spell zinc. I’m still trying to catch up. Btw... Blues4u...? I’m hearing a little Elmore James back there somewhere..
     
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  14. 2OLD2FAST
    Joined: Feb 3, 2010
    Posts: 3,511

    2OLD2FAST
    Member
    from illinois

    To the best of my knowledge , filter bypass valves are located in the filter adaptor on the engine .
    An anti drain back valve is sometimes included in filters , whether or not its needed is another question..
     
  15. 2fast,
    Finally,,,,,,someone has mentioned this fact .
    If the filter clogs or the media collapsed within it,,,,,the only way to get the oil to the engine is,,,,,,by the bypass of the filter .
    Look at a SBC adapter,,,,,there that dude is ,,,,,,.
    I always listen to the older guys,,,,,they know .

    Well,,,,,,at least some of them do,,,,,,LoL .

    Tommy
     
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  16. Ebbsspeed
    Joined: Nov 11, 2005
    Posts: 5,602

    Ebbsspeed
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Not all lifters are convex when new.

    https://www.enginebuildermag.com/2009/04/flat-or-tapered-cams-and-flat-or-crowned-lifters/
     
  17. Jalopy Joker
    Joined: Sep 3, 2006
    Posts: 27,423

    Jalopy Joker
    Member

  18. Actually they can be in the filter, allows for oil flow when the filter media can’t handle it, plugged, cold oil etc.


    upload_2021-6-30_20-2-25.jpeg
     
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  19. After my last break-in (VR 10W30 and Royal Purple filter) I went with a high zinc Brad Penn 10W40 and a Moroso filter.

    I use only Moroso, Wix and AC Delco extra capacity filters, latest oil I use is a high ZDDP Kendall 20W50 racing oil, year round. I change the oil and filter once a year since I put less than 3000 miles on the car in recent years.
     
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  21. Jacksmith
    Joined: Sep 24, 2009
    Posts: 693

    Jacksmith
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Bosch Filter & 15w40 Diesel oil. After break in.
     
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  22. dart4forte
    Joined: Jun 10, 2009
    Posts: 101

    dart4forte
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Mesa, AZ

    Bad lifters. Ever since Covid and maybe before most if not all cam manufactures have been using lifters produced off shore. Several of my buds have lost cams to the same issue. Best to buy lifters with early pre Covid or insure that the lifters were not procured offshore.
     
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  23. 6sally6
    Joined: Feb 16, 2014
    Posts: 1,681

    6sally6
    Member

    Maybe so but ........how?!
    Some /most of the lifter suppliers either re-box off shore stuff into USA boxes or........claim they don't know "BUT THINK" they are US product.
    (They know most of us want quality USA made lifters..like we had back-in-the-day...so a little hustle-hustle to get it to say "made in the USA" to shut us up.)
    I hate being cynical but........we know it's all-about-the-buck with most all suppliers.
    Roller lifters seems to be the only sure bet to prevent flat lobes and ruined engines.:(
    6sally6
     
  24. Jacksmith
    Joined: Sep 24, 2009
    Posts: 693

    Jacksmith
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Damn, I wish you were wrong!
     
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  25. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 7,215

    Budget36
    Member

    So where are roller lifters made?
     
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  26. dart4forte
    Joined: Jun 10, 2009
    Posts: 101

    dart4forte
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Mesa, AZ

    I scored a NOS Wolverine lifters from a member here. Not sure when Wolverine went out of business but I’m sure it’s been awhile. Another option is to refurbish a set of old lifters
     
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  27. birdman1
    Joined: Dec 6, 2012
    Posts: 1,274

    birdman1
    Member

    Melling lifters are made in USA.
     
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  28. Ericnova72
    Joined: May 1, 2007
    Posts: 474

    Ericnova72
    Member

    Crane Cams absorbed Wolverine Blue Racer around 1992-ish near as I can recall...last Wolverine catalog I picked up at a event was 1990 and it wasn't long after that. Crane grabbed up Cam Dynamics about the same time period.

    You're definately in the good with those.
     
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  29. AGELE55
    Joined: Jan 4, 2018
    Posts: 374

    AGELE55
    Member

    I HAVE noticed some packaging’s subtle drift away from “MADE IN USA” to “A US COMPANY”. Tricky use of wording. Headquarters are in the US someplace, but the manufacturing plant is in China someplace.
     
  30. Jacksmith
    Joined: Sep 24, 2009
    Posts: 693

    Jacksmith
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    There was a town in China somewhere named Usa... big manufacturing facility. They could print "Made in USA" and not be lying.
    I remember as a curious kid I had a metal wind-up toy that ceased to function, so I took it apart to see how it worked, and if I could fix it. (sound familiar?) Inside the body of the toy was a printed logo; a Schlitz beer can had been re-purposed to make this toy. It said Made in Japan, but you get the idea. This stuff has been going on in one capacity or another for a very long time.
     
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