Register now to get rid of these ads!

Technical SBC Bellhousing ID

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Artiki, Sep 22, 2021.

  1. Artiki
    Joined: Feb 17, 2004
    Posts: 2,008

    Artiki
    Member
    from Brum...

    Hey folks, need some info.
    Can anyone ID this bellhousing for me please. It came with an early Chevy and I intend to use it with a T5 swap.
    What's it from? Will this suit a 168 tooth flywheel? Okay with 11" clutch?

    Thanks for your help as always. 20210320_114330.jpg 20210320_114315.jpg
     
    Deuces likes this.
  2. How big is that center register diam? Looks too big (aka truck size) for the T-5. You may need an adapter ring.

    The casting number will help ID better if you have that.
     
  3. DDDenny
    Joined: Feb 6, 2015
    Posts: 15,328

    DDDenny
    Member
    from oregon

    Never seen one with dual clutch fork openings, maybe for RHD exports.
     
  4. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 30,021

    Mr48chev
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I'm thinking that it a replacement bellhousing that works with a manual clutch or a hydraulic clutch and was set up for the passenger side mounted slave cylinder.
    I'd check the diameter of the hole as 38Chevy454 suggested as it is probably for a truck trans.
     
    427 sleeper likes this.

  5. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 49,789

    squirrel
    Member

    measure the center hole...if it's 5-1/8 it's the big one, you need a spacer ring. Or check the fit on your transmission.
     
    427 sleeper likes this.
  6. Bob Lowry
    Joined: Jan 19, 2020
    Posts: 689

    Bob Lowry

    It is the larger truck bellhousing. This link will give you info. on the size, and it offers an
    adapter ring to take up the space for the smaller size front bearing support.

    Chevy Bellhousings (novak-adapt.com)
     
  7. Fordors
    Joined: Sep 22, 2016
    Posts: 3,838

    Fordors
    Member

    EB64F38F-8C98-471A-9448-F34A1983F74C.jpeg That is the small bell housing, it will not accept the 14” large diameter flywheel. Early (‘55- to maybe early ‘60’s) 168 tooth f/w’s are drilled for 10 1/2” clutches, the later ones will be drilled for 11”. If you do not already have the f/w then get a 12 3/4”, 153 tooth ‘wheel and a starter with the diagonal bolt pattern.
    The register diameter looks like it is the right size for passenger car and the marked photo shows the pocket for the starter nose is in line with the edge of the bell, the starter pocket for the big ‘wheel kicks out a bit. What is odd is the bell has the fork pivot on the passenger side. Some truck applications had the hydraulic slave mounted on that side but I’m thinking a pickup would have come with a 168 tooth f/w. @DDDenny might be correct about a RHD export passenger car.
    You can move the pivot ball to the other side but it will require tapping that hole, it looks like it’s not threaded.
     
    Bob Lowry and Max Gearhead like this.
  8. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 49,789

    squirrel
    Member

    As far as I know all the truck bells are for 14" flywheel. Thanks for pointing out about the kickout...I haven't played with bellhousings much lately and don't have any here to look at....but that's what you need to look at to see what it fits. If you can't find a number on it.
     
    427 sleeper likes this.
  9. I thought the small flywheel/flexplate used the inline pattern starter nose?
     
    427 sleeper likes this.
  10. Fordors
    Joined: Sep 22, 2016
    Posts: 3,838

    Fordors
    Member

    My mistake, you are correct. Thanks for setting me down the right path.
    Oh, and @squirrel , I think the casting number would be on the knock-out that was removed for the opposite side fork. I guess we may never know the number on that bell.
     
    427 sleeper likes this.
  11. Artiki
    Joined: Feb 17, 2004
    Posts: 2,008

    Artiki
    Member
    from Brum...

    Thanks for your comments, guys. I'll have the engine out later and can get some more measuring and pics done. I've not found any numbers and being on the clutch arm knockout would explain that.
    It's a 265ci currently mated to a '38 Ford trans. I've been playing with flatheads and four-bangers for a while and all this new-fangled OHV stuff has my head spinning a bit, so I appreciate your clarity.
    Will report back later.
     
  12. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 49,789

    squirrel
    Member

    when you can bolt the bell to the engine, you can measure from the center of the crank, to the lower part of the bellhousing. If there is more than 7", it will take the 168 tooth flywheel. If there is less than 7", it will require the 153 tooth.
     
    Deuces likes this.
  13. saltflats
    Joined: Aug 14, 2007
    Posts: 10,927

    saltflats
    Member
    from Missouri

    With that bump out for the starter it is for the 168 tooth flywheel.
     
    Deuces likes this.
  14. Fordors
    Joined: Sep 22, 2016
    Posts: 3,838

    Fordors
    Member

    9BD46A02-7F15-4843-BC35-A78842561524.jpeg 2B974217-98E3-4955-A2EF-E7A23366D900.jpeg

    This shows the difference in the bump out.
     
    Deuces and squirrel like this.
  15. I have the same one. I was told that it was an over the counter replacement Bell, that could work for right and left hand drive cars. I don't know how accurate that is, but that is what i was told. I don't see how it would have been used as a truck replacement bell for 2 reasons, first the truck bells have motor mounts cast into the bottom and that trans hangs off the bell, and second there is no provision to bolt the slave cylinder to the bell for the hydraulic clutch applications. It is also quite light weight. It does have the small passenger car bearing retainer diameter, but originally the passengers side was not cut out at the factory. mine has had the passenger side cut out and then welded into the drivers side to fill the hole. the Pass side has the inside of the bell scored to show where it needs to be removed, sort of like a knockout in an electrical box. Unfortunately the part number is right on the knockout area for the pass side clutch fork. mine has part of the part number but not the full number from where it was welded back in. Im pretty sure this is a 70's cast piece just because of the light weight, seriously this thing might weigh 3 or 4 pounds. i wouldn't put it behind any thing with some power.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2021
    Artiki likes this.
  16. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 49,789

    squirrel
    Member

    Truck bellhousings used the bottom mounts only through 1972, the later ones were normal aluminum bells like that. And hydraulic didn't start again until 1988, I think. So you'll find the 1973-87 bellhousing looks similar to that. But they also had a different shape, they "stick out" around the bottom, to clear the 12" clutch, which is a monster.

    Also note how tight the pivot ball is to the center hole, with the 5-1/8" opening.

    bell.jpg
     
    427 sleeper and Deuces like this.
  17. Camaro cable clutch had the fork on the right. Could be a an '80s era car bell and was built that way to save having more then one bell on the assembly line.

    By the way I have suggested a cable clutch like a Camaro for a clutch linkage solution several times this type of bell is what you would need to do that.
     
  18. Artiki
    Joined: Feb 17, 2004
    Posts: 2,008

    Artiki
    Member
    from Brum...

    So...
    20210923_171048.jpg

    ...it doesn't fit over the larger flywheel. Darn it.
    However, the hole is the right size for the T5.
    Hmm. So my options are to source a different bell or change my flywheel and starter, I guess?
     
  19. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 49,789

    squirrel
    Member

    that's right
     
    Artiki likes this.
  20. I could use the bell. Find another bell and shoot me a reasonable price.

    Way cheaper to source a different bell than change out everything else. My mill only makes 400 or so horse and I don't need an 11 inch clutch.
     
    Deuces and Artiki like this.
  21. It is definitely from a corvet.:eek: The orange paint tells the true origin.:D
     
    '34 Ratrod and Deuces like this.
  22. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 18,665

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    That is a 403 bellhousing.

    Part number:
    3858403
     
    Artiki, Nailhead Jason and squirrel like this.
  23. Thanks to @gimpyshotrods for knowing the part number.

    According to www.1968ss.com here is what they have information wise for that part number.....

    3858403 for 153 Tooth Flywheel 10"



    3858403
    The Chevy "403" is an aluminum 153 tooth bellhousing with a 4 5/8" center hole. This makes it compatible with all GM 4 speeds (Muncie,Saginaw,T-10), except the 1963 small bearing retainer transmissions.

    4035.jpg
    Part # and engineering codes
    The part number and engineering codes are on the unused clutch fork knock out.

    Some Chevrolet parts manuals that are dated after 1980 show ALL 3858403 part numbers with the following notation. ( IDENT. NO. 3840383 ). Some people are under the impression that the "383" bellhousing was the earlier model. To add to the confusion the 462606 bell has 383 cast on the clutch fork ball stud boss of some bells.

    Applications per the 1967-1975,1976-1981(July 1986) Chevrolet parts catalogs and 1953-1981(Nov.1981) Corvette parts catalog.

    0.683 Housing Assy.,clutch (ident.No. 3840383) (note 1)
    note 1 : Less ball stud

    69 Chevy,Chevelle,Camaro w/ reg. fuel(350)
    69 Pas.(350 w/ reg. fuel)(exc. Taxi,Police,H.D, clutch)
    69 Chevy,Chevelle,Camaro w/ reg. fuel(327)
    67-68 Camaro(327)
    65-68 Chevelle(327)(exc. H.D. clutch)
    64-69 Pass. w/ reg.fuel (327)(exc.Taxi.Police,H.D. clutch)
    70-73 All(307)
    68 Chevy(307)
    68 Chevelle(307)(exc,H.D. clutch)
    68 Pass.(307)(exc. Taxi,Police,H.D. clutch)
    67-69 All(302) I.D, #3840383
    65-67 Chevelle (283)(exc. H.D. clutch)
    64-67 Pass.(283)(exc. Taxi.Police,H.D. clutch)
    75 Nova(262)
    73-75 All (6 cyl.)
    70-72 All (6 cyl.)(exc. Taxi,Police)
    69 Chevy,Chevelle,Camaro(230.250)
    68 Chevy(6 cyl.)
    64-68 Chevelle,Camaro,(6 cyl.)
    64-69 Pass. (230.250)( exc. Taxi,Police,H.D. clutch)
    69 Pass. (350 w/reg. fuel) (exc.Taxi, Police, H.D. Clutch)
    69 Chevy, Chevelle, Camaro w/reg. fuel (350)
    76-77 A (250) W/M.T.
    76-79 F (250) W/M.T.
    77-79 B (250) W/M.T.
    78-78 X (250) W/M.T.
    80-81 F (229) W/M.T.
    64-68 Y (327,396)
    66 Y (427) W/SP. H/PER.
    67-69 Y (427) W/H.D., AL.CYL. and Case


    A= Malibu
    B= Impala,caprice
    F= Camaro
    X= Nova
    Y= Corvette

    Applications per the Thru 1975 Oldsmobile Parts Catalog Effective May,1980

    66-74 L6 S.T.
    75 All X S.T.


    Applications per the1976-81 Oldsmobile Parts Catalog Effective July,1987

    76 ALL(250) W/3 SPD
     
    427 sleeper, Artiki and Deuces like this.
  24. Artiki
    Joined: Feb 17, 2004
    Posts: 2,008

    Artiki
    Member
    from Brum...

    Thanks everyone for their input with this. I've now had another thought so please humour me and don't be afraid to call me a dick if I'm completely wrong.

    The goal is to mount my T5 to my Chevy. No probs and done a thousand times. However, this is '56 265ci engine in my '38 Ford. I'm currently running it through my 3-speed via an ali adapter. All good so far, yeah?

    So, I've been searching for a GM bell to mount the T5. However, first of all I have the wrong size bell. Secondly, I'll have no way to mount my starter with a later bellhousing. Early Chevs mount them on the bellhousing.

    So it's got me thinking. This is what my engine looks like right now...
    20210924_164342.jpg

    As far as my engine is concered, at the back it is a flathead. My '38 trans bolts straight up to it and the starter bolts in, and the flywheel has no idea that it's a Chevy turning it because all it can see is the 3-speed.

    So, if I mount my S10 to a flathead to T5 adapter such as...

    2032_ArticleSection_L_83acb477-a694-4a2a-abf5-801a5aa5e4f8.jpg

    ...it should all mate up. Chevy engine on to the Wilcap adapter on to the T5 adapter on to the T5.

    Does that make sense?
    Starter bolts up, can use stock clutch gear (that'll save so much time and fabrication) and the T5 is done.

    I appreciate that using two adapters probably isn't good engineering practice, but this is a 170hp baby small block.

    It seems obvious, therefore I've probably missed something, so please help me out and tell me.
     
  25. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 49,789

    squirrel
    Member

    I like it....I don't know for sure if it will work, but it's a good approach.
     
    Artiki likes this.
  26. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 7,215

    Budget36
    Member

    Wouldn’t it be more cost effective to source a proper bell?
    I don’t recall the size, but I pulled a bell housing, flywheel clutch from behind a 265 years back. I have it “somewhere”. I think the bell was for an early 60’s PU, it had a spot to mount a slave cyl on it as I recall.
    Those T5 adapters are more expensive than a bell housing I’d think?
     
    Artiki likes this.
  27. Artiki
    Joined: Feb 17, 2004
    Posts: 2,008

    Artiki
    Member
    from Brum...

    If there is a GM bell that will mount both the T5 and the starter, I'm all for it. My sum knowledge of these could be written on a very small beer coaster, so if anyone knows of one, let me know.
     
  28. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 7,215

    Budget36
    Member

    BTW, where is Brum?
    Well, your knowledge exceeds mine;)

    Where is Brum at? I can do some looking this weekend for what I pulled out. But I don’t know if it would be cost effective to ship?
     
  29. Artiki
    Joined: Feb 17, 2004
    Posts: 2,008

    Artiki
    Member
    from Brum...

    Brum is the affectionate name given to my home town, Birmingham. Alas, this Birmingham is in the centre of England.

    Really appreciate the offer but I reckon shipping would cost similar to an ali adapter. If you do stumble across it and can take some pics though, I'd really appreciate that.
     
    Budget36 likes this.
  30. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 7,215

    Budget36
    Member

    That might get expensive on your end;). For me it would be a box and a trip to the post office. Anyways I’ll give a look and pics.
     

Share This Page

Register now to get rid of these ads!

Archive

Copyright © 1995-2021 The Jalopy Journal: Steal our stuff, we'll kick your teeth in. Terms of Service. Privacy Policy.

Atomic Industry
Forum software by XenForo™ ©2010-2014 XenForo Ltd.