Hot Rods Saw a poster for the Sno*Drift and it got me thinking...

Any interest in rally racing here? Seems like it would be a fun way to go historic racing. I was interested in it a while back but it had kind of slipped off my radar until I had to go up to Atlanta, MI on the eve of the “Sno*Drift” event this year.

Everyone brings up the Monte Carlo Falcons, but I’ve seen Hot Rod Baja coverage with full-size ‘50s cars doing basically the same thing. Maybe a good use for projects that are too far gone for a real restoration.

The appeal of rallys, to me, is that they take place under real driving conditions and may actually teach you a thing or two about road-going mods.

 

Putting snow tires on the Rambler has revived my dreaming...

 

I could see this applied to any early sixties compact, really...


Dispatched from my 1949 Underwood Master.

 

This probably belongs over on dogfight, but anyway. Lots of history in your area. Google the old POR rally and go to http://www.sno-drift.org or http://www.lsprorally.com

Falcons on the safari rally in africa
:http://blog.hemmings.com/index.php/2011/06/22/fran-hernandez-and-the-1964-east-african-safari-rally/

 

I thought about posting on Dogfight, but I really don't want to have to wade through a lot of discussion about turbocharged Subarus for a few nuggets about people running in the historic class.

 

A group of those guys does pikes peak every year as well. Seems like a lot of carrera panamerica type cars.

 

Only a couple problems with the Rambler plans.
1. To get dual carbs you would need to locate a pretty rare 52-54 Nash or Edmunds head for the flat-head Rambler six. You could use a 1V to 2V adapter, but I don't think that will be much gain over the largish 1V it has. I'd tune the carb it has. The 196 is a GREAT tractor motor, it pulls right from idle pretty well, but it takes a few seconds to build up speed, and will only rev to about 2800 rpm. A better cam will help, you have to send the original in to be reground.

2. You'll have to make an exhaust header. You do that by taking short pieces of pipe and "T"ing them into the down pipes. You 'll have to weld "ears" on to clamp the things to the block and the bolts are right in the center above and below the ports. A simpler idea that helps a little is to take the cap off the front of the stock "manifold" (it's exhaust pipe clamped to the side of the block with holes cut for the ports) and run another pipe from the front, giving you dual exhaust. Won't flow as well as a header, but will help some.


I think you have the right idea with the five speed and low gears, but you don't need to go as low as 3.73. Like I said, the motor is ready to pull right from idle. The T-5 will already have a lower first gear. Almost anything lower than a 3.00 will work.

I wouldn't use the 8.8 axle. You don't need the strength with that motor, so why lug the extra weight around? The 7-9/16" Rambler axle (AMC 15) will be fine, just make sure you loosen then torque the axle nuts to 250 ft/lbs so you don't spin a hub (the ends of the axles stretch a little after nearly 50 years of use!). If you want a newer axle or don't have the right gearing in the original axle use the lighter 7.5" Ranger axle. That is unless you plan on putting a healthy V-8 in later... then the 8.8" would be warranted. The Rambler needs a narrow axle though, only the early Ranger (90-92) axle is a decent fit, and then you may need deeper wheels. The original axle is only 55" wide. Some AMCers have taken the offset hog-head Explorer axle and bought another short side axle, then shortened the long side tube to fit the short side axle. This leaves you with about a 56" axle, which will fit. It centers the hog-head too.

 

Hmm, I thought you wrote here that the single-carb head could be machined to replicate the Statesman's LeMans twin-carb head. Perhaps I'm misreading that.

I figured a header would have to be custom built, but I'm intrigued by the idea of modifying the stock exhaust manifold. The car needs exhaust anyway, and maybe I'll take that route. How do you think the flattie will sound with twin glasspacks?

The only reason I would consider replacing the original axle was to gain better brakes and easier access to rebuild parts. Otherwise, I'd be happy to leave it in place. I rather like the way the axle ends stick out of the wheels ala early Ford.

The Explorer thing is very common in the Falcon world too. Funny how much overlap there is!

 

How heavy is this thing going to be once you put in a legal cage? You sure you want to keep the 6?

Is this a frame car or unibody? If unibody, probably need to strip it and seam weld everywhere you can or it's going to come apart. Especially strut tower areas.

 

You're reading it wrong. We did indicate that the BLOCK still had the casting "bump-outs" where the two 1V carbs were mounted, but you still have to have a 2x1V head. Looks like it was 1955 Nash Statesman only that had that option. I've never seen one of those, only a few of the Edmunds heads (which are pretty rare!). Nash also made a 2V carb head fir the 53-56 Statesman with auto trans. It may have been optional for manual trans cars, my sources aren't clear on that. Most manual trans cars still used the 1V carb. The 2V adds about 15 hp, but those were low compression engines (7.45:1). The 58+ 196 L-head runs 8:1.

 

It will likely start out heavy and slow, but that's ok. The better to learn on, I imagine. It can always be made faster later on (perhaps with one of those 258 / 4.0 hybrid strokers; or an AMC 360 V8). That's a good point about welding up all the unibody seams, although I think the AMC Uniside technology is better in that respect than their competitors at the time.

Farna, thanks for clearing that up about the heads. I would probably just stick with a single 1bbl then. No sense in putting a lot of venturi area into an engine that won't rev enough to take advantage.

 

I used to Race SCCA Pro Rally at a Professional Level (in other words someone paid me to do it) from the mid 70's until around 1990. I have thought about some of the Historic stuff, but you have to understand it is quite hard on the cars, the dirt and gravel roads will tear up your car underneath, and I can't bring myself to do that to an old car. And that is IF you keep it on the road and on all 4 wheels.
Hell of a lot of FUN though!

 

Mid 60's Falcon, Capri, Chevy II, Corvair, Rambler American, Dart or Valiant, have seen several of each set up for performance rally applications. Light weight, sturdy, big 6 or small V8's. Falcons, and Mercuries, and Mopars, competed at high levels on the Safari Rallye, and the Monte Carlo.

Or do up a Lincoln, Mercury, or Studebaker Cerrera PanAmericana style.

 

Now that's what I'm talking about!

 

get yourself a Volvo pv or Amazon and you got a much
faster lighter better handling more fun to drive car
that can stand the
beating of ralley driving

 

Yes, but then I'd be driving a Volvo.

Seriously, though, my interest in racing is for improving my breed of choice and my own skills as a driver - not to be front-of-the-pack competitive.

 

The American can take it! Sidney Dickson drove one in a London, England, to Sydney, Australia rally back in 1968. He used a 290 V-8 car. The chassis is virtually the same from 64-60, with only a few changes over the years. James Garner's race team modified some in 69 for the Baja off-road races. A couple were even converted to 4WD! The car is still around, and he built another one that he ran in an early 90s recreation of the same race.

 

As long as you know you wont be competitive, go for it! Probably lots of races where you will be the only one entered in that class. Easy trophy, haha. The tough thing is are you prepared to commit all the money and all the time for it. The car is the small part of the budget. You still need (SFI or FIA) spec cage, seats, belts, nav computer, helmets, fire suits, arm restraints, shoes, HANS, fire bottles, first aid kit, blah blah blah.

Oh, and don't forget you have to have a co-driver, and they have to have all the gear, and have to know what they are doing.

Next, you need the best struts money can buy, a shitload of tires. A trailer, and a tow rig. Mountains of money for gas and hotel rooms, entry fees, license fees, insurance.

Get the rally america rule book and get started. Im sure there are a multitude of inspectors up there that can look at your cage plans before you build it. I highly recommend it. Go to rally anarchy or special stage and start reading. Meet some people who have done it, etc.

Still the most fun I have ever had in a car, and I only did a few national events and some regional stuff and the local hillclimb series.

 

I live in the snow for five months a year so every trip to
the store is like a RAC rally PV and Amazon is my favourit
then 65-66 mustang and Ford Cortina

The PV is exelent short wheelbase,nice round ass with
out rearbumper you can use the snow walls for suport
in the bends stif nice unibody
its easier to better your driving skills in a good handling car

 

cool stuff

 

A brand new Crown Victoria in a rally

 

That is a great picture!

 

http://www.northland-falcons.com/images/Video/monte_carlo_rally/index.html



check here for equipment and set up as it was in 67

http://www.shell-4000-rally.org/4000_web/1967/1967image/index_2.htm

 

Late 60s Rambler Americans were competitive in rallys. I already mentioned James Garner's cars: http://www.amazingmusclecars.com/1512registry/registry_pages/publications/jamesgarnerbaja.html
Photos of the 4x4 car and copy of a magazine article: http://scrambler1969.blogspot.com/2010/11/james-garner-1969-baja-4x4.html

Here's another 2WD car that was sponsored by AMC Canada for a Canadian Rally. The guy selling it is off his rocker, but never hurts to try!:
http://www.race-cars.com/carsales/other/1334323453/1334323453ss.htm

The good thing is that anything he puts into the body won't be lost. The 64-69 American will easily handle any AMC engine, or other small block. I wouldn't put a big block in a rally car, but it will fit (a little tight, like in a Camaro). The later AMC sixes would be a good choice, even the 4.0L. It's easy to upgrade the drivetrain, so prep the body now and run what you have for fun and practice, then surprise everyone in a year or two (if you haven't lost interest!) with an engine upgrade -- go from the back of the pack to the front!

I wouldn't say the car won't be competitive even with the little L-head. You have to drive a torquey low speed motor differently than a high revving little motor. Take advantage of the torque taking off and pulling out of curves. You'll lose ground on long straights, but will have an advantage at low to mid rpm. You can run a bit less gear than the little revvy motors. Standard manual three speed axle was 3.08 in 64 with the L-head, so you should be okay. A 3.31 gear was optional and would be better. Auto equipped models came with the 3.31 gear. OD models had a 3.78, which might be a bit much on the high speed runs.

 

Great stuff! Thanks guys, I hope it keeps coming.

 

also look up Gene Henderson and Competition Limited. Gene still sells rally equipment and prepares cars for competition, and is located in Michigan. Gene ran and developed cars for Chrysler/Jeep and Chrysler affiliates like Roots Group and Simca, back in the 70's. He won the FIA sanctioned Press on Regardless in a 4 wheel drive Jeep Wagoneer. First American car to win a FIA WRC event and first 4wd driveentry and win for FIA WRC.

 

Interesting. It happens I'll be in Traverse City tomorrow. Maybe I'll stop in and visit Competition Limited.

 

He might have had something to do with this or some that were similar.

 

Plym 46,
That is my old car 142. It is a 390V8 AWD 727 trans car.
Henderson had nothing to do with it. It was built by a guy named Dean Blogowski from a brand new 1982 Eagle. My partner and I bought it in the late 1990s. Sold it a few years ago.
Here is a link to our 73 Gremlin Pro Rally car http://tinyurl.com/owyvsy3


we took on the 2010 Hot Rod Power tour. 401V8 2wd 998 auto full cage and for sale. Steel wheels on it now.
If you build your own car you will spend about $5000 to get to the first rally.
The HANS device is about $900-1000.
Pro Rally is not cheap even as a privateer.
I have rallied in all forms from 1966 to 1997

Nick