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Projects SA's 1957 Buick Super Build

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Strange Agent, Apr 25, 2009.

  1. Strange Agent
    Joined: Sep 29, 2008
    Posts: 2,879

    Strange Agent
    Member
    from Ponder, TX

    I took the drums into a local auto part store today, the man said he could turn them, but would offer no promise as to well the bearings would be in decent shape when I get them back. I have to wait until tomorrow evening to find out. I'm not sure what I'm going to do if they're messed up. I guess it will depend on whether or not the hubs clear the brakes.

    What's a disc brake? :cool:
     
  2. Strange Agent
    Joined: Sep 29, 2008
    Posts: 2,879

    Strange Agent
    Member
    from Ponder, TX

    I went and picked up my drums today, here's how they look now:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    The guy at the auto supply store was kind enough to remove my bearing and seals, so they are undamaged.

    The rear hubs went on fine.

    The fronts were not so simple. The good new is, they clear the brake shoes now. The bad news is, they still don't sit properly:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    My best guess as to why they aren't fitting is that the bearing seals I'm using (from the Roadmaster) somehow do not clear the final "step" of the Super spindles. So tomorrow I'm going to take one of the Super front hubs apart and see if they are different.

    Here's how the car is sitting now, half of a roller:

    [​IMG]
     
  3. Strange Agent
    Joined: Sep 29, 2008
    Posts: 2,879

    Strange Agent
    Member
    from Ponder, TX

    The Buick voodoo never ends.

    The brakes on this car are beginning to really confuse me. I thought the brakes would be easy, but to this point, I've been very wrong.

    The spindles on my Super are not the same as the Roadmaster. I didn't realize this until I had already taken the brakes off the Super and Roadmaster and mixed them together, hoping to take the best of each to have a really good set of brakes.

    I had no idea that anything mechanical would be different from the Super to the Roadmaster model, so I wasn't cautious. Now I'm paying for it.

    The Super spindle: (no built-in inner bearing race)

    [​IMG]

    The Roadmaster spindle: (built-in inner bearing race)

    [​IMG]

    I'm not really sure what I'm going to do yet. The problem is that none of my front drums (from the Super or the Roadmaster) fit over the Super spindles with the brakes on them.

    The front drums from the Super and the Roadmaster, although different designs, appear to be the same exact size.

    Any Buick wizards out there that know what the heck is going on?
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2011
  4. Strange Agent
    Joined: Sep 29, 2008
    Posts: 2,879

    Strange Agent
    Member
    from Ponder, TX

    Stupid computer.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2011
  5. Strange Agent
    Joined: Sep 29, 2008
    Posts: 2,879

    Strange Agent
    Member
    from Ponder, TX

    I have to be missing something here- a step in the process or something. Now, I can't get any of the drums to fit fully on the spindles.

    The Super and the Roadmaster drums were both fully installed on both the cars before I dissembled them. Now, I can't get either of them to go back on fully.

    What am I missing? This stuff is depressing me...
     
  6. Strange Agent
    Joined: Sep 29, 2008
    Posts: 2,879

    Strange Agent
    Member
    from Ponder, TX

    Upon further inspection of the shop manual, it would appear I have installed the brake shoes backwards. I knew there was a primary and a secondary shoe, but I messed up on interpretation from one of the figures in the manual. I'm going to reverse them today and see if this doesn't solve my problems.
     
  7. Ralphies54
    Joined: Dec 18, 2009
    Posts: 772

    Ralphies54
    Member

    Could it just be that the roadmaster shoes are wider than the super shoes? The roadmaster being a heavier car would need more stopping power,thus wider shoes @ the same diameter as the super. Also that outter bearing race goes on after the drum and bearing and under the nut and washer.
     
  8. Strange Agent
    Joined: Sep 29, 2008
    Posts: 2,879

    Strange Agent
    Member
    from Ponder, TX

    The Roadmaster does not have wider shoes, I did check this though. The Roadmaster actually isn't bigger at all. The only dimensional difference between series 50 (Super) and series 70 (Roadmaster), is that the overall height of series 50 is .2" lower to the ground, at curb weight. I'm assuming this is because of the different roof lines, but I haven't studied this, so I'll digress...

    Yes, sir, thank you for the information on the bearing race, I have been doing a lot of research, and have finally figured out my problems.

    I suspected the primary and secondary shoes were reversed, they were, on 3 of 4 corners. I spent the evening reversing them, and have the wheels fully installed on 3 of the 4 corners. I have to wait to get the passenger, front drum/hub assembly installed because the bearing race that Raplhie is talking about is stuck on the Roadmaster spindle, and my torch ran out of propane.

    So, tomorrow, this bad boy should be a roller. I also replaced the rear brake hose, which was all dry and brittle.

    If tomorrow works out, I'll be done with most of the brake work at the wheels, I'll then be focusing my attack on the master cylinder and the lines from that to the wheels. I'll post pics tomorrow if I get a chance.
     
  9. Ralphies54
    Joined: Dec 18, 2009
    Posts: 772

    Ralphies54
    Member

    Glsd you got it figured out. Dont heat that race to hot or you wil soften it and then it's worthless. If you had a puller or a slidehammer I'm sure it would just pop off. Good luck and you'll be cruising soon.
     
  10. Mart
    Joined: Mar 3, 2001
    Posts: 4,893

    Mart
    Member

    The outer bearing inner piece should be put in after the hub goes on.

    The other spindle does not have that built in, it's just clearanced to clear the bearing.

    Pull off that bearing inner, put it into the outer bearing from the outside and slide the hub on.

    All should be ok then.

    Mart.

    EDIT:didn't see that this had already been addressed when I skim read the thread.
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2011
  11. skoh73
    Joined: Apr 17, 2008
    Posts: 1,553

    skoh73
    Member

    Glad to hear you have solved the problem. Post some pics of yer ride when you get to roll it out into daylight!
     
  12. Strange Agent
    Joined: Sep 29, 2008
    Posts: 2,879

    Strange Agent
    Member
    from Ponder, TX

    I'll be as careful as I can.

    Still, thanks for the help.

    I'm not totally out of the woods yet, I have the driver-side front hub all the way on, and have a wheel and tire on it and everything, but it is still really tight. I'm not sure what the deal is. The shoe lining seems pretty fresh, so I'm hoping it's not much more than that.

    But I will take pictures as soon as I get it rolled out.
     
  13. Strange Agent
    Joined: Sep 29, 2008
    Posts: 2,879

    Strange Agent
    Member
    from Ponder, TX

    It's a roller! ... sort of.

    I got the bearing race off the Roadmaster, on the Super, and dropped her down... the brakes are so tight, however, that she won't budge from where she sits- stubborn.

    [​IMG]

    Sorry for the poor picture quality, it's a crappy cell phone picture.

    Now I'm moving on to getting the master cylinder all figured out. When I've finished the brake system, I'm going to have a an old car mechanic who has done some work for me in the past take a look at the brakes to see what's up with the tightness.
     
  14. Mart
    Joined: Mar 3, 2001
    Posts: 4,893

    Mart
    Member

    It might be that the brake pivot pins are too high. Have a look and see if they are adjustable. Different types of shoes have the pivots at a different height.

    I had to do something like this when mixing 57 and 59 parts.

    Mart.
     
  15. Strange Agent
    Joined: Sep 29, 2008
    Posts: 2,879

    Strange Agent
    Member
    from Ponder, TX

    I will look into this, thanks for the tip.

    Looks like the ol' Buick is going back up in the air. :rolleyes:
     
  16. Strange Agent
    Joined: Sep 29, 2008
    Posts: 2,879

    Strange Agent
    Member
    from Ponder, TX

    Progress has been slow, my brother managed to finish mocking up the master cylinder and everything- it looks really good, and is a great fit. Now I'm going to finish up the lines from the master cylinder to the brakes and then I will be moving on to stripping the old wiring out and installing the Rebel Wire kit, then hopefully I'll be able to get this thing to fire off again.
     
  17. 64LeSabre455
    Joined: Dec 29, 2007
    Posts: 779

    64LeSabre455
    Member
    from Adkins, Tx

    Keep it up, progress likes to take it's time!
    hope to see some shots of the master cylinder.
     
  18. Strange Agent
    Joined: Sep 29, 2008
    Posts: 2,879

    Strange Agent
    Member
    from Ponder, TX

    I'll be sure to post some pics when it's finished, maybe I can take a couple shots of how it looks now before my brother gets to finishing it.

    All that's really left is to grind some of the welds and paint the cowl the master cylinder goes into.

    I'll try my best to post pics tomorrow.
     
  19. Strange Agent
    Joined: Sep 29, 2008
    Posts: 2,879

    Strange Agent
    Member
    from Ponder, TX

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    And check out my lowrider:

    [​IMG]
     
  20. Strange Agent
    Joined: Sep 29, 2008
    Posts: 2,879

    Strange Agent
    Member
    from Ponder, TX

    Here's a comparison of the new master cylinder against the old:

    [​IMG]

    Here's the work my brother did on the cowl to reinforce it:

    [​IMG]

    Here's the cowl all finished up:

    [​IMG]

    Here's the rod for the brake pedal:

    [​IMG]

    Here are the lines all buttoned up:

    [​IMG]

    And here's how it will look (mostly) when the hood is popped:

    [​IMG]
     
  21. gassercrazy41
    Joined: Jan 9, 2011
    Posts: 1,432

    gassercrazy41
    Member

  22. Strange Agent
    Joined: Sep 29, 2008
    Posts: 2,879

    Strange Agent
    Member
    from Ponder, TX

    Thanks, man. :cool:
     
  23. Strange Agent
    Joined: Sep 29, 2008
    Posts: 2,879

    Strange Agent
    Member
    from Ponder, TX

    Since all the brake hardware is in now, I'm changing gears to wiring.

    I spent last night stripping the old wiring harness out. I left a little wire hanging from the dome light, so I don't have to remove the headliner (which is in pretty decent shape!) for the sake of a dome light.

    I also left a little wiring in the truck so I can splice into the brake lights, running lights, reverse lights, license plate lights, fuel gauge, and trunk light.

    I spent a little time looking through the instruction manual of the Rebel-Wire harness, and from the looks of it- this is a dang good kit. The instructions are very clear and simple, I'm looking forward to a smooth install.
     
  24. Century
    Joined: May 28, 2009
    Posts: 177

    Century
    Member

    Great thread, I always look forward to updates.

    The master installation looks good, thanks for the detailed pictures.

    Just a few questions:

    You didn't need any proportioning valves or any of that?
    Where did you get the T and coupler?
    What are you doing for a brake light switch?
     
  25. Strange Agent
    Joined: Sep 29, 2008
    Posts: 2,879

    Strange Agent
    Member
    from Ponder, TX

    First of all, thanks for the kind words.

    This is my first time doing anything this deep, so I'm definitely naive, but I'll take a crack at answering your questions.

    The master cylinder's reservoirs are different sizes, the smaller reservoir feeds the rear.

    I reused all the stock stuff.

    Let me break it down: in the original setup, everything went into the union, and the master cylinder fed through the top whole of the union. I plugged the top hole, and ran the front brake feed (from the master cylinder's front reservoir) to the back hole where the rear brake line used to plug into, so there are the front brakes, then I just bent the line and ran a line from the rear brake line to the rear reservoir on the master cylinder.

    I haven't looked at the brake switch yet, not sure what I'm going to need there.
     
  26. deadendcruiser
    Joined: Jul 18, 2007
    Posts: 691

    deadendcruiser
    Member

    Very cool updates so far. The brake system on my 56 could use an update. This thread is great.
     
  27. Century
    Joined: May 28, 2009
    Posts: 177

    Century
    Member

    Sounds good. I'm not sure about your specific MC, but I thought that generally the rear reservoir was for the front brakes and the front reservoir was for the rear.
     
  28. Peterson32
    Joined: Jul 14, 2011
    Posts: 104

    Peterson32
    Member

    awesome work keep it up more pictures!
     
  29. Strange Agent
    Joined: Sep 29, 2008
    Posts: 2,879

    Strange Agent
    Member
    from Ponder, TX

    Thanks, this has been a long and sometimes depressing build, a little encouragement is a big help. :cool:

    Well, I guess I won't really know until I try to drive it, but on this MC the front reservoir is larger, so I am assuming it is for the front, but I'll check into it some more and see if I can't come up with some information.

    Thanks, I'll do my best.
     
  30. Strange Agent
    Joined: Sep 29, 2008
    Posts: 2,879

    Strange Agent
    Member
    from Ponder, TX

    Summer hasn't been as productive a season as I had hoped it would be. The goal was to get the car running and driving before I have to go back to school on the 22nd, and I just don't see it happening. It kind of sucks.

    Here's what happened to my front clip with all the other projects going on in the shop:

    [​IMG]

    I spent a little time with my brother cleaning the shop, and I unburied the clip:

    [​IMG]

    Here's the rotted battery tray, I plan to cut it out and move the battery to the trunk:

    [​IMG]

    Since the dash has been out of the car for a while, I decided to take out the factory firewall insulation, I was concerned about it being moldy, rusting any due to moisture absorption, and critters making nice little houses in it. Here's how it looks now:

    [​IMG]

    And that's all I got for now...
     

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