Salt flat special... ed

Just saw another post here,asking if
anyone was interested in a belly tank.


I would suggest definitely NOT Chrome Moly for the chassis.

 

Why not it's stronger and lighter that DOM my drag car is .083 chromoly I know it its a PITA to weld and spendy I was mainly looking to save weight. I am just asking in LSR is weight not that important or is there something else I am missing.


Dan

 

Using Chrome Moly doesn't save weight inland speed racing,because the
rules require you to use the same size tubes as if you were using mild steel.


People actually add weight to combat lift at speed.
Those big water tanks serve dual purpose.

 

Ahh I see now well that tidbit of info just saved me about 2k worth of cash I will go with DOM much easier to work anyway thanks.

 

Put the engine in sideways and run a gilmer belt or chain drive or? That would take care of the width of the vw motor.

 

Width of the motor is one problem,
cooling is another.Air scoops cost drag,and kill speed.

Running with zero cooling is ok on shorter tracks like Maxton.
Cylinder heads like to drop seats above 400 F.
---
Check the forums on landracing.com for more tech info.

 

On the tank I am trying to get the motor will fit. I am just trying to figure out how to make it lift out the top when in the mid engine config. Tubes are going to be in the way.... unless I run "king rails" like they did in monster garage then I can branch the cage off of that but I was thinking a tube only chassis to begin with.

Dan

I am not trying to hijack this thread honest just brainstorming

 

so what i was thinking was really tiny scoops like NACA ducts and putting "misters" from a water injection system(sno pwerfoemance type) to improve the cooling efficency and have that go through the air boxes i build around the cyls and heads. and run a 20 shot of n2o after the turbo to cool it down (it really works) If i ran methanol it would be easy but that record is way up there.

Dan

 

Don't mess with a VW, get a subaru boxer engine.

Here is a link to our subaru adapted to vw transaxle Bonneville car
http://carmelsaltcar.blogspot.com/

 

I already got the VW plant and it makes a bunch of HP I just have to take it out of my drag car when IM ready and VW is most of the fun for me in the project.

 

Not sure where I came across this pic at, but I want to say Lowry or one of the early V-dubbers were involved with it. I also vaugly recall a feature on it in R&C, maybe, sometime back in the late 60s-- early 70s. (?)

 

Good Luck Cat, Fun is the best part of any project.
Hope to see you on the SALT!

You'll want to hook up with these air cooled nuts.
http://www.saltflats.com/36_HP.html
Thes are some folks that will be glad to cheer you on

 

I also had a similar idea about a year ago except mine was going to be a Maxton car which is a lot different than a Bonneville car. I decided that using an actual belly tank creates a bunch of extra work and headaches and I bet the aero is not a lot better than a formula looking car.

I drew up a car that looks more like a stretched out Swift Formula Ford. Square or rectangular lower rails, more upright seating position [ I have some neck issues ], lots of space between the front of the motor and the back of the driver's cage for fuel, battery, electric box, etc. This extra space will allow use of inline motors in the future.

This design frame makes the bodywork mostly flat panels with few or no compound curves. Everything held on with dzus fasteners for easy maintenance. Formula 5000 style scoop just behind the drivers head should bring in enough air for the induction system and the cooling system.

Use a swingaxle transaxle and flop the ring gear for mid engine use. 3.44:1 R&P is available. Have the radius rods on the back side of the axles with the pivot points just behind the transaxle. This gets them out of the way when working on the motor. Use pushrods from the axles to inboard mounted coilovers. Formula Vee's use one rear coilover for both rear wheels [ zero roll suspension], would have to talk to some Vee guys to see what issues LSR use might have.

The front suspension could be anything from tubular upper and lower A-arms with inboard coilovers; one tubular A-arm with a transverse leaf spring as the other control arm ala Fiat and others; straight axle with transverse leaf or torsion bars; with the easiest and quickest to build {and most drag inducing} being the std VW front torsion beam set up.

The biggest difference in a Maxton car versus a Bonneville car is that I think you would want it as light as possible since the traction isn't such a problem.

After looking at all the variables and displacement breaks I think a 1500 CC VW would be the best bet. You guys with the bigger motors have to contend with well developed DOHC 4 valve per cylinder, liquid cooled 4 and 6 cylinder engines.

IMHO the LSR clubs could do a better job on breaking down the classes by valve actuation and number of valves per cyl AND automotive based versus motorcycle based. A Hyabusa motor is going to smoke anything automotive based.

 

I never understood the reasoning behind the Subaru's. The only logical reason for building a pancake motor is becuase the designer wants to use air cooling. If you are going to use liquid cooling then an inline makes more sense. Fewer machining operations, fewer parts, more compact, etc.

I know that the Suby guys say low CG but that is probably negligible for a car with a charging system, AC compressor, power steering pump, etc.

 

1500cc you get to compete against the destroked larger car motors,and big bike motors.

If you are doing it for fun,go for it.

If your idea of "fun" means setting records,or at least standing a chance,in a Lakester,you will need more than an air cooled VW.

 

Back in 1970s-80s midget racing we came to learn the folly of trying to build high h/p VWs that live. You'll need a bunch(actually ALL ) of parts and pieces from AutoCraft, Pauter or places like that. Of course then you really won't have a VW engine and instead you'll just have a high dollar flat 4 racing engine, which kinda makes the idea moot.

 

Running a 2 valve push rod motor,with 3 main bearings,
trying to make the same reliable power as a brand new
4 valve twin cam,with 5 main bearings is basically impossible.
Especially when the factories are backing the big teams.


The rules don't give a break on displacement
for running 2 valves and/or push rods.

There are still a few of the lower class records held by
push rod motors,but that is just a matter of time.
Especially when people start running bike motors in cars,
then multiple bike motors.

 

There is a company that makes FG belly tanks . I don't have the link or name but a little diligent searching would probably turn it up .

 

As much as I don't mind "Bugs"(my wife has had one since she was 16), I think that it's more about traditional salt cars 'round here. Any way, what's wrong with a Flattie, Hemi, early OHV Caddy, Olds or even a Jimmy6 ?

 

Bonneville is about doing what ever it is you want to do within the classes. Nothing about "Tradition" unless you want it. Flathead fours? Fine. Twin cam four valve V6? Great. Run what ever you want. The hell with anyone who dosn't like it.

 

...Trust me.. There are WAY TO MANY Drunken hell raisin' Hot rodders in Cincinnati for this to be true.. If it were, we would have the fence cutters out and they'd be gone. (not that I would EVER do or support anything like that)

Good luck on your project.. If you've been to B-ville then you understand.. THERE IS NO "CORRECT" way of doing things. ITS ONE OF THE LAST TRUE RUN WHAT YOU BRUNG, INGENUITY RULED, TYPE OF AMERICAN AUTO RACING!! Thats why its great.

...diesle engines have never been well excepted in hot rods but THERE ONE OF THE COOLEST THINGS AT B-VILLE.. Long live the PHENOX...

 

I do. PM me. Wayno

 

Depends on the class you are planning on running,
and how competitive you want to be.

 

AMEN!!!!!

That is the coolness of LSR

 

Absolutely!!

This thread reminds me of a couple of students back in the late '60's from Caltech who decided to see what "natural" shape was the most aerodynamic.
(this was a class project and they had access to the wind tunnel on campus)

They discovered that an EGG - yeah, the kind you have for breakfast - was VERY aerodynamic.
They scaled up the egg shape large enough so a driver - in the fetal position - could fit inside with a 100 cc model aircraft engine for power. It sat on four narrow bicycle wheels with a "T" tiller steering bar. They brought it out to Bonneville to see what it could do.

It had to be pushed out to get started, and the best speed they got out of it was 38 MPH!!
(as I recall)
That year, THEY were the "hit of the party!!"

 

The VW or "NonTraditional" talk is a sensitive subject around these parts its a shame because you (the people) could learn alot from aviation, low riders, mini trucks, and yes even tunners I will never post (maybe when its done) pictures of my 67 Datsun pick up that I'm buildin for the salt with a turbo 4 cylinder. Sad that to many of you guys have blinders on thats all im sayin

 

i wonder how a rotary engine would fare...small, light ,simple, high r.p.m. range... anyone know the displacment on a wenkel?

 

Rotarys run at 3 times their advertised displacement. They do OK like that. Very loud. In around '79 or so Marlo Triet had a lakester with a 6:71 blown Mazda two rotar. Blower was as big as the motor. Ran OK. Don't remember speeds.

 

Don't know the displacement, but it's going to be 3 times bigger than you think. I don't think the SCTA is too rotary "friendly" This from the 03 rule book:

 

Racing Beat did set some records,with the x3 factor.